Ok guys...here's a brand new feature I just came up with. Quite simply, every so often (mainly when the previous debate gets a bit dull) I'll name a new Falcon and quite simply we need to decide whether he should stay or go in the offseason? I want to know what you think, why you think it, and what you would want to get for him if you want him gone (ie. draft pick, another guy, or just release).

Any suggestions as to who you would like to discuss, please pm me and I will do my very best!

To get us started, one of the most debated players in Atlanta at the moment:

DeAngelo Hall...should I stay or should I go???

Go....

From a team stand-point, DeAngelo Hall is an immeasurable asset to the Falcons. But he's a young, high-caliber football player. From the players' standpoint, you have to go to a team that looks like they can be competitors. Like Detroit for instance.

he's soo talented, he's just a crazy person who cant contol his emmotiions. i think we should trade him for multiple draft picks or a young DT or OL. or here's a crazy thought. hall for derek anderson and a 4th rounder. helps both teams, lets falcons get BPA proboly mcfadden. and the 2nd rounders on OL. my opinion

Listen to offers. If we get one we like, send him away. If not, he's under contract, and we could franchise him after next season.

That's a vote for go... at the right price.

Um...no. Keep your flash in the pan QB. Falcons will draft BPA regardless of what happens b/c there are too many needs to lock into one position AND Petrino clearly wants to rebuild.

OK...I think its about time for me to give my opinion. Personally, I think DeAngelo Hall should stay. We are not going to be able to find a new CB as good as him through the draft, at least not one able to play at his level straight away, and we wont get one through FA or trade for what we'd have to get rid of him for. Based on that alone, i wouldn't get rid of him.

Also, he's a leader. Many others in that dressing room look up to Hall, and I don't care about the fact that he and Petrino had a bust-up. So what? You need good football players in your team, and Hall is just that. He's still young and can be a multi-time Pro-Bowler. You don't get rid of guys like that if you want to win football games!

If you don't mind giving up the age factor, Ronde Barber is scheduled to be a FA next offseason, as well as Quentin Jammer. Both are veterans and proven leaders. DA and a 4th is waaaaaay too low. I'd say DA, 2nd, AND a 4th for DeAngelo Hall. It's rare that a straight lock-down corner comes through the draft. But I think Aqib Talib is the closest thing to it in man coverage this year.

Hall may be a Falcon longer than Petrino and if the defensive scheme were tweaked a bit he'd put up even better numbers, but unless you get a HUGE package deal he should stay.

Absolutely. We already have enough holes as it is , without creating any more.

I've seen rumors that three SEC schools are going to take a run at Petrino as soon as the college season ends.

By the way, did anyone catch the quote by DeAngelo after the game Sunday? If not:


Q. Could you talk about your interception? I know there were a couple that you guys were back there fighting over.

[DEANGELOl]. For everybody that says I'm not a team player, that just goes to show you. I gave up two for my teammates. I was just able to get my hands on the ball a couple of times.

Me and Lawyer [Milloy] were fighting for it one time. He probably had better position than I did so he came down with it. I was able to grab one, and me and Jimmy [Williams] at the end of the game were fighting for one. I just went ahead and gave it to him. I think that might be his first career pick, so he deserves it.


This is from a post-game interview WeAngelo did with the AJC.

Exactly. Plus, when you consider that Atlanta is carrying 12 rookies on the roster this season, and currently has 9 draft picks with 2 comp. picks likely to be added, how much more youth can the team afford?

Most of the veteran team leaders are on the chopping block b/c of age, salary, and/or not keeping their mouths shut.

I think Atlanta could already be looking at a roster turnover that's on par with an expansion team.

Before all this started, I expected this to be Wayne Gandy (age, salary, declining skills), Keith Brooking (age, declining skills, doesn't fit scheme), and Warrick Dunn's (doesn't fit scheme, age) last year with team.... Not to mention Brian Finneran who's on IR. There's no way Finn still has enough juice in his knees to play in the NFL.


When you start to add the players who've been headaches for Petrino and past coaches: Rod Coleman, Alge Crumpler... even though I agree with him, and DeAngelo Hall.


There aren't a lot of vested veterans left on the team.

By the way, pick any name from this list of names to discuss who should stay/go and why.

Dallas has 2 # 1 picks this year, Cleveland and their own. If Jerry Jones decides he needs a big cover corner could he make an offer for DeAngelo Hall?? How about one of those # 1s for Hall? Maybe a flip flop of later picks to sweeten the deal???

If the Falcons could get a high #1 pick and move up in the 3rd, they might listen but they will likely need more to bite, IMHO.

As much as I hate to repeat myself...if Hall goes, who can we get to replace him that will be as good as him? We can not let talent like Hall go.

Good point on a flip, they can be very strtegic in their use of both. They are ina nice position, they need to egt a good corner no matter what. Trade a pick for one? Either way...

I don't think we'll have much of a choice. Plus, the guy has actually cost the team one game this year already, which he took zero responsibility for. He's been ejected from games during each of the previous two seasons. Do you really want a player in the locker room calling the head coach 'assinine' and 'ridiculous'?


Asante Samuel will be on the free agent market, and New England has a history of letting their veteran secondary players walk.


Dallas was actually the other suitor I considered for DeAngelo this offseason. I wouldn't discount Seattle either. Re-unite him with Mora who kissed his ass every chance he had. It's an unadmirable position the Falcons find themselves in, and certainly it would be best for everyone if DeAngelo woke up tomorrow morning and found he'd matured by ten years, but they can't let themselves get burned (in 2009)like what happened with Patrick Kerney. We don't have to trade DeAngelo and certainly he could be franchised following next season, but at the moment the situation shows little sign of improvement.

A best case scenario would encompass a high draft pick and an at least sevicable veteran CB in the package, Seattle and Dallas might both be players in that scenario, I agree that Hall is a once in 2-3 year type talent but if he is becoming a cancer then surgery is necessary to halt the spread.

Worst part is that his antics have been too well chronicled to hope for anything for than a 1st. It's a trade that the Falcons won't benefit from except that they could create a better locker room environment for the team, which has been a big problem for Atlanta in the last four or five years. Vick took a lot of the blame for that, but behind the scenes D-Hall, Rod Coleman, and Alge have all been on the same talkshow.

OK...so we're still undecided on DeAngelo Hall, with some arguing he should stay and others saying he should go, but only if we can get the right deal for him.

So, having argued that one out, I think its time for a new edition of Should I Stay or Should I Go?

The next man is 4th on the Falcons all-time leading rushing charts, is just around 50 yards short of rushing for 10,000 career yards, and last season was one half of the first QB/RB pairing to both rush for more than 1000 yards in the same season. However, this year he has only 481 yards through 9 games at an average of 3.3 ypc and only 3 TDs, whereas his less used backfield partner has an average of 5.9 ypc.

So the question is...Warrick Dunn...should I stay or should I go?

Yes. It's been inevitable from the time they extended his contract. My only hope is that he eclipses 10,000 yds in a Falcons uniform. It would be great if he announced his retirement, but I'm not going to go crazy. He could still be a good back up for a team like Denver or Oakland or Houston.

a) He doesn't fit Petrino's scheme
B) His skills are diminishing
c) Norwood is almost ready for prime time
d) I firmly believe RB will be a position the Falcons will look to augment this offseason.

In response:

a) Agreed
Agreed
c) Really? I'm a big fan of Jerious Norwood, but I'm not convinced he's an every down back. I'd love to believe it, but I'm just not sure.
d) Then again, if they draft another back to work alongside him, then who knows?

Snelling will get his first look this weekend, so based on what he does this week and probably for the rest of the season, we'll have a better idea about where the RB situation is. Last year, Atlanta would've drafted Adrian Peterson if he'd still been on the board at #8, so I wouldn't count against them looking that way again. Jon Stewart will probably get a good look, but I think current events are showing that it just doesn't pay to spend a lot of money on a running back. They wear down to quickly, and you can usually find a guy off the street if you have to.

Besides, LaBrandon Toefield and Greg Jones are both very good free agent options.

Its not very often you're going to hear me say this, but I think its time for Dunn to go. He's past it and I don't think the Falcons can get anywhere near being successful again without making a change in the backfield. As much as Dunn has done for the Falcons, its time for him to go!

Yes but what can you get back for him? On most teams he'll only be a 3rd down/change of pace back and he's not getting younger. If you can get a 5th/6 you'd have to consider it, what he might do is renegotiate to give the Falcons more cap flexibility.

To be honest, I think the way we're going at the moment I wouldn't be too upset if we only got a 5th/6th for him. At least that extra pick might allow us to draft a big guy for the D-Line or something, where, let's face it, we need help. Someone like the Raiders might take a chance on him having 1 good year left in him.

You can't trade a 30+ year-old running back in the NFL. It's impossible when each year at least three teams can sign a UDFAR and get four or five 100 yard games out of him.

The F.O. will hope Dunn retires after getting to 10,000 yds, but if not they'll make the decision for him.

A week ago, I'd've agreed with you. But he was very servicable against CAR, a team with good OLBs and a stout D-line, plus he ran without a backup to spell him.

But does he really have a future in Atlanta? I mean, OK he's had 2 good games, but does that atone for the 7 bad ones before that? And even so, is he still going to be able to produce next year? For me, he just doesn't seem to be the Warrick Dunn of 2-3 years ago. His ypc is something like 3.1, and thats just not good enough these days.

We'll he is not the Warrick Dunn of 10, 5, or 2 years ago and I'd package him with a mid-rounder if I could move up and/or get an extra pick in the 2nd or 3rd.

Oh, I agree completely that he should be traded (I think that norwood and a 3rd or 4th round big back would be awesome) but I don't think he's past hs prime. I think he could go off in a place like denver.

I definitely agree on the Norwood and a big back. I think someone mentioned that LaBrandon Toefield is a free agent in the offseason and certainly he would be a good power back to have alongside Norwood. The only thing that worries me is that Norwood might not be able to carry the load at this level. He's done amazing when subbing Dunn, but can he do it time after time? If he can, then we can go back to being the number 1 rushing team.

With Dunn though, I'm going to have to disagree...I can't see him rushing for 1000yrds again in his career, in fact I can't even see him getting close. I'd be surprised if he even has many 100yrd games left to be honest. I think teams that have no rushing offense might be glad to have him as a change of pace guy, but not a starter anymore.

By the way...welcome to the Forum and the site Rich. I look forward to getting more of your views in future!

To repeat, you cannot trade a running back over 30 who's skills are obviously diminishing.

No GM in the league would give a draft pick to take on a big contract when the likelihood is that the player would be released anyway. And if the player can't help your team (and if you're looking to trade him it's fair to assume that he can't) then why use the roster spot on him?

The options are cut or keep... not trade.

Ladies and Gentlemen, its time for a new edition of Should I stay or should I go? Having debated whether or not DeAngelo Hall and Warrick Dunn should stay in Atlanta or be let go or traded over the last 2 weeks, its time for a very special edition of this feature.

With the struggling World Champion Indianapolis Colts coming to Atlanta on Thursday for Thanksgiving I want you to put yourself inside the head of Coach Petrino and ask yourself "should I stay with Byron Leftwich as my starting QB, or should I go back to Joey Harrington?"

Now, obviously Petrino has faith in Leftwich but his performance against Tampa wasn't great, and before that Joey had lead the team to 2 straight wins. There's never go to be a better time to beat the world champs so getting the right QB is going to be vital...and so once again I ask, should I stay with Byron or should I go to Joey?

The floor is yours...

Thanks for the welcome, cjs.

I think Harrington is a much better, but much less talented qb. Leftwich is to Jeff George as Harrington is to Joe Montana. (hows that for an overstatement?)

Joey's been good, but this is him at his best. Leftwich will only get better. (or injured) In the first half of the saints game, with Leftwich under center, the offense looked great. Leftwich wasn't awesome, but his arm strength opened up the field dramaticly. Remeber how we were running those 15 yard out routes, and hitting them for first downs? Harrington couldn't make those throws if his life depended on it. It's the only time we've really seen the Petrino offense as it's meant to be.

Is Harington the answer? I don't think so. Leftwich may not be either, but the franchise guy we need is going to look alot more like Byron than Joey. I think Harrington is just a waste of time. With Leftwich, if nothing else, we get an extra year's worth of practice with a real spread offense.

The part that makes this such a difficult decision is that Petrino has stated both in action and in words that he doesn't believe Harrington can produce wins and that Leftwich can. However, since Leftwich started a month ago he's 0-2 and Harrington is 2-0 and played well Sunday.

The move back to Leftwich after consecutive wins was extremely unpopular among fans and players. Petrino is a former college coach trying to convince an NFL team that he's right and most of what they've been doing for the last three years has been wrong. It doesn't help his authority when he sticks his neck out like he did for Leftwich and it results in a spectacular defeat.


Pride aside, I think he has to start Harrington. If not Thursday, then the following week (assuming the Falcons lose to Indy... not a huge leap) name Joey as the starter for the rest of the season.

But there is no question that Harrington has played better. Leftwich looks slower and more inaccurate than he did in J-ville. He might as well walk into the defensive huddle and tell them the exact spot he'll be passing to.


Regardless, of all this, though. At 3-7 and soon to be 3-8, the season is lost. At this point, Rich McKay needs to start working on getting Michael Boley and DeMorrio Williams resigned. Everyone else needs to stay as healthy as possible. Too bad we can't just pay Alge to sit out the next 6 games to try to give his knees more time to be healthy for next season.

Yeah, but Joey's 2 games were against inferior teams (SF and CAR) while Byron played the Bucs and Saints, who are both better than us. And of course Leftwich is rusty. If he had as many starts as Joey, I doubt we'd be having this talk.



Michael Boley has been huge this year, if we don't go ahead and get an extension/new contract, he's only gonna get more and more exphensive. I can't wait 'till Alge becomes the topic of this thread.

CJS- GREAT idea for a thread. I love it.

Since I'm late, I'll give you my take on the others. Remember, I'm a casual Falcons observer, not a die-hard fan.

-DeAngelo Hall: GO. I think he's overrated, and I don't like his attitude. Get what you can for him, I'm sure he's worth something in trade value. Whatever you do- DON'T make it obvious that you are shopping him, or his value will diminish.

-Warrick Dunn: GO. I want to say stay, but I want him on the Seahawks... For all the football reasons, he should not be back in Atlanta. For all the other reasons (leadership, etc.) I would never not want this guy back on my team. He's very valuable in the locker-room and I think you have to shop him around and see what you can get.

-QB's: DRAFT. I love Byron Leftwich, but Petrino doesn't and the injuries are getting out of hand. Draft someone, and let Petrino groom a young QB for the future. Harrington, I think, can be a decent backup.

Heres the news we've all been waiting for:

http://www.nfl.com/thanksgiving/story?id=0...mp;confirm=true

Joey Harrington will start on Thursday, but only because Byron Leftwich has (yet another) injury. Personally I don't care whether Leftwich has an injury, Joey should be starting anyway, so its all good!



Rich...you may not have long to wait...not that I'm hinting he's next on my hit list or anything!

The injury came from one of his new teammates clubbing him in the knee with a lead pipe.

lol! Now that I'd like to see!

OK...so with the Colts out the way and another loss on the record, its time to turn our attention to another Falcon and consider whether he should stay or go. This week its time for Mike Vick's former favorite target (I say former, as Vick is no longer an NFL QB) - Tight End Alge Crumpler.

The floor is yours... Alge Crumpler - should I stay or should I go?

Stay

-I think that Alge is still as good a TE as he ever was, he's just having to adjust to some changes in the offense. When Vick was the QB, he was a guy who would run 10 yards and then find Vick as he was scrambling. Now, there's more emphasis for him to run precise routes and be where he's supposed to be. He'll adjust, and the woes of this offense simply can't be put on his shoulders. He's a contributor, and I expect that once they get him a decent QB, he'll continue his run as a perrenial pro bowler.

Stay.

I don't always like him talking to the media, and he definitely has been an occasional thorn in the sides of some former head coaches with some behind the scenes comments to Blank, but like it or not, he has emerged as the face of the team this season.

Talent-wise, I think Petrino needs to find a way to get him involved more. Aside from Greg Olson he might be the fastest tight end in the league. When we get a QB capable of throwing deeply and accurately, we have to utilize that to keep safeties concious of defending the deep middle.

Having a master plan is good, but genius is being able to adapt a master plan.


There's also the fact that Alge's knee problems would seriously impact any attempt to trade him. I'd love for the front office to go to him in two weeks and say, 'your offseason begins today. Rest and be a little healthier next season when we have our QB problems solved.' Unfortunately, that won't happen.

Its all well and good to say that, but isn't running precise routes and being where you're supposed to be the job of a pass-catching TE in the NFL? At the end of the day, Vick is a very rare QB and we're not going to get another one like him, so surely Crumpler needs to adapt quickly to the proper route running or he needs to go?

Having said that, I hope he adapts, as his pass catching and playmaking ability are second to none in the NFL and I would hate to see us lose someone with his level of talent as well as his leadership qualities.

I think it's more of an issue of how he's being used. Last year, he ran a lot of post and seam routes. This year, it's five yards and turn around. If he does go deep over the middle, Harrington can't get him the ball, anyway.

It's also important to not that Petrino hadn't seen him practice (b/c of injury) until almost the end of training camp, so while at this point adjustments should have been made, I don't think Bobby knew what he had in Crumpler.

Hear, hear! Surely we should be using more, not less, of our best pass catching threat. I mean, we try and the the ball to all these WRs, but none of them have the ability to make a play like Crumpler!

I LOVE Crumpler and he has been a top 3-5 TE for about 5 years, but let's be realistic, if the right over comes along you HAVE to at least listen, right?

Do you? If the Pats got offered a load of high picks for Tom Brady would they really trade him? Same for the Colts and Manning? The point I'm making here is that some players are worth more to their team than any group of draft picks/other players, and I'd say that if we can actually get Crumpler more involved in this offense then he can be like that. Obviously I don't mean that he's NFL MVP material, but that he's worth more to the Falcons than we would receive in a trade for him.

Exactly. That's particularly true with the purge that's likely to come during the off-season. You name a veteran on the Falcons, and there's been a rumor that he'll be cut in February or June next year. Dunn, Brooking, Gandy, Milloy, Finneran, Horn, Coleman, McClure, etc. any or all could be cut. That's not to mention that DeMo may be lost to free agency.

I think it's going to be bad enough that a few players may ask to be traded. They need Alge to be continue to be a leader. Hopefully, he'll want to be.

I sure hope not, he and Boley have been a revelation at OLB. But we'll get to them sometime soon...as well as some of the others you mentioned too!

But for now, I agree with you entirely on Alge, he must stay unless we want to go 0-16 next year!