michaelweiskircher
Dec 19 2007, 12:25:49 AM
To project this draft for the Bears we really need to see the big picture here. The O-line is the biggest weakness of the team period. Drafting a QB early is an unnecessary huge risk and I seriously doubt any of the early candidates are better than Rex anyway. Also Rex wants to stay with the Bears and can be signed to a cheap incentive laden 3 year deal. That is a huge cap advantage, huge. To get the most bang for our buck & immediate impact in the draft we need to go after a top LT or Safety. If LT Michael Oher of Ole Miss declares for the draft this is a no brainer. If not then S Kenny Phillips of Miami is no brainer pick plan B. I'd be estatic with either but LTs in free agency cost big, big $$ and are very rare so I'm hoping for Oher. Next in the 2nd round I'd take a top guard like Roy Schuening of Oregon St. In round 3 I think S Tom Zbitkowski could be a dream come true for the Bears D. With the other 3rd rd pick take a QB maybe Colt Brennen. Although I HATE drafting QBs we need someone decent to groom for the future. FREE AGENCY - resign Briggs & Berrian then pray we have enough money to sign guard Alan Faneca. If all that happens 2008 will be much better.
gpngc
Dec 19 2007, 12:47:29 AM
I know OL must be addressed, but I'm not sure if the Bears can afford to pass up on a QB in the first round.
Can you really head into ANOTHER year with a 2nd or 3rd round rookie, Grossman, and Griese? I don't think you can if you're Lovie Smith...
vance3
Dec 19 2007, 8:45:51 PM
the offensive line is the pick probally trade down if oher doesn't come out.... baker,clady, and cherilus can be had in late rd 1 and adding flexiability to draft Flacco out of delaware in the 2nd rd... and adding a running back that can put some pressure on benson... both 3rd picks have to be on the line or safety....if they trade down and bowman is there they will have to give him a look...
michaelweiskircher
Dec 20 2007, 4:03:57 AM
QUOTE (gpngc @ Dec 19 2007, 5:47:29 AM)

I know OL must be addressed, but I'm not sure if the Bears can afford to pass up on a QB in the first round.
Can you really head into ANOTHER year with a 2nd or 3rd round rookie, Grossman, and Griese? I don't think you can if you're Lovie Smith...
I understand what you're saying I really do. I Did some research. Since 1980 59 QBs have been drafted in the 1st round of which 13 played in the Super Bowl (22%) with a combined record of 8-13. Since 1980 256 QBs have been drafted not in the 1st round of which 13 also played in Super Bowls (5%) with a combined record of 6-7. Also did you know that Steve Young, Kurt Warner & Jake Delhomme weren't even drafted! They went a combined 2-2 in Super Bowls. I just think that drafting QBs is way, way, way overhyped. Especially by teams with many draft needs such as the Bears. Last I checked a QB has never come close to winning a SB based on his unbelievable talent alone (think Marino, Elway & Jim Kelly for example). Drafting QBs is a dream that too many educated football people in the know are tempted to chase.
This is why resigning Grossman at a bargain price is a better bet for the money than trying to shoot the moon at drafting a QB. I know it hasn't been proven beyond a doubt yet but I think Grossman when he fully matures with more experience & protection from an O-line will be an above average QB in the NFL. And even the numbers seem to say he's a better risk. I know, go figure.
kdjohansen
Dec 28 2007, 10:52:23 AM
QUOTE (michaelweiskircher @ Dec 19 2007, 5:25:49 AM)

To project this draft for the Bears we really need to see the big picture here. The O-line is the biggest weakness of the team period. Drafting a QB early is an unnecessary huge risk and I seriously doubt any of the early candidates are better than Rex anyway. Also Rex wants to stay with the Bears and can be signed to a cheap incentive laden 3 year deal. That is a huge cap advantage, huge. To get the most bang for our buck & immediate impact in the draft we need to go after a top LT or Safety. If LT Michael Oher of Ole Miss declares for the draft this is a no brainer. If not then S Kenny Phillips of Miami is no brainer pick plan B. I'd be estatic with either but LTs in free agency cost big, big $$ and are very rare so I'm hoping for Oher. Next in the 2nd round I'd take a top guard like Roy Schuening of Oregon St. In round 3 I think S Tom Zbitkowski could be a dream come true for the Bears D. With the other 3rd rd pick take a QB maybe Colt Brennen. Although I HATE drafting QBs we need someone decent to groom for the future. FREE AGENCY - resign Briggs & Berrian then pray we have enough money to sign guard Alan Faneca. If all that happens 2008 will be much better.
Wow, I completely agree with everything I read here. I do not think they'll go QB in round 1, dont want them to, and dont think it would be smart to. I also think the pick is O-Line and would absolutely love it if the pick was Kenny Phillips. I'd like to make sure that the defense gets back to the top next year, and I dont think you can pass up on an impact player like that, especially at a need position, knowing that O-line can be addressed in later rounds. I love the round 3 plan of grabbing Zib and then a QB.
As far as free agency, I dont think they're going to have enough cash to sign back both Briggs and Berrian with the other needs they have. I think you have to get Berrian, not because he's outstanding, but because what do they have behind him? Also, if you can grab Jordan Gross then your tackles are set and that would free up more players to consider in round 1.
vance3
Jan 9 2008, 6:31:59 AM
QUOTE (kdjohansen @ Dec 28 2007, 3:52:23 PM)

Wow, I completely agree with everything I read here. I do not think they'll go QB in round 1, dont want them to, and dont think it would be smart to. I also think the pick is O-Line and would absolutely love it if the pick was Kenny Phillips. I'd like to make sure that the defense gets back to the top next year, and I dont think you can pass up on an impact player like that, especially at a need position, knowing that O-line can be addressed in later rounds. I love the round 3 plan of grabbing Zib and then a QB.
As far as free agency, I dont think they're going to have enough cash to sign back both Briggs and Berrian with the other needs they have. I think you have to get Berrian, not because he's outstanding, but because what do they have behind him? Also, if you can grab Jordan Gross then your tackles are set and that would free up more players to consider in round 1.
its really nice to know that true bears fan understand that drafting a qb is not the answer in the 1st rd but in the 2nd 3rd pick is ideal...
cjs206
Jan 9 2008, 6:40:01 AM
So what you guys are saying here is that you want to go into next season with your QBs listed as: Rex Grossman, Brian Griese, Kyle Orton and Joe Flacco. No disrespect or anything, but do you want to go 7-9? Really?
B_rent87
Jan 10 2008, 11:52:08 AM
I highly doubt you will even have a chance to sniff at Kenny Phillips if you stay at your current draft spot. The rest looks good going an alterante way.
kdjohansen
Jan 10 2008, 11:57:54 AM
QUOTE (cjs206 @ Jan 9 2008, 11:40:01 AM)

So what you guys are saying here is that you want to go into next season with your QBs listed as: Rex Grossman, Brian Griese, Kyle Orton and Joe Flacco. No disrespect or anything, but do you want to go 7-9? Really?
Well lets see. First, if Orton, as a 4th round rookie can lead them to the playoffs in 2005, why couldnt he do the same after learning the system for four years?
Then Grossman, first please name the qb with the most 100+ passer ratings from 2006...Ill save you the time, it was Grossman. Second, how did he preform after his demotion this year? He looked fine, had one pick, and that was because Berrian fell down on the play. Last year Grossman played well in both playoff wins, and then did not play well in the Super Bowl. If my QB can lead my team to the Super Bowl, thats cool with me. Grossman has the arm and the accuracy, he does have his flaws, but he is 100% better equiped to lead the team to a successful season than the VASTLY overrated Andre Woodson and Matt Ryan. Brian Brohm may be different, but he is by no means a "cant miss" prospect.
The Bears should draft a QB this year for sure, but dont waste the money and the other available talent by reaching for Andre Woodson in the first round. If they even come close to drafting Mr. I Cant Cut Down My Picks In College, Why Should I in the Pros Matt Ryan I'll shoot myself.
With an O-line to protect the QB Grossman can thrive, and Orton has shown he can manage the team.
If the Bears can draft a blue chip LT prospect, that is the pick in round 1. Kenny Phillips would help big time also as the Bears are weak at safety. Defense is what brings the Bears success, re-tool the defense a little and bulk up the O-line and the Bears are back in the playoffs.
kdjohansen
Jan 10 2008, 12:13:09 PM
QUOTE (B_rent87 @ Jan 10 2008, 4:52:08 PM)

I highly doubt you will even have a chance to sniff at Kenny Phillips if you stay at your current draft spot. The rest looks good going an alterante way.
Yeah I've seen all the mocks with Phillips going to Denver with the 12th pick....but from 12th to 14th Id say thats a little more than "sniffing" Kenny Phillips. Players drop all the time, and with a sub-par, by his standards, senior year its easy to see how Kenny could drop.
cjs206
Jan 10 2008, 12:19:18 PM
In 05 and 06 the Bears practically were handed their division on a plate, given how bad the Packers, Lions and Vikes were for those 2 years. You could have played Tim Couch at QB and still got to the playoffs in those years, thats how bad your divisional opponents were.
In 07, with a much stronger division, it was proved that Grossman, Griese and Orton are not the type of QBs you need. Kitna and Favre are much better QBs and will win games for their teams, and the Vikes have All Day. The Bears need someone to light up the offense, and that someone is a QB. With and improved passing game, Cedric Benson could become more of a weapon also.
I'm not going to argue that the Bears need help on defense - they really do, but they also need an offensive spark if they are going to compete in their division.
kdjohansen
Jan 14 2008, 10:11:19 AM
QUOTE (cjs206 @ Jan 10 2008, 5:19:18 PM)

In 05 and 06 the Bears practically were handed their division on a plate, given how bad the Packers, Lions and Vikes were for those 2 years. You could have played Tim Couch at QB and still got to the playoffs in those years, thats how bad your divisional opponents were.
In 07, with a much stronger division, it was proved that Grossman, Griese and Orton are not the type of QBs you need. Kitna and Favre are much better QBs and will win games for their teams, and the Vikes have All Day. The Bears need someone to light up the offense, and that someone is a QB. With and improved passing game, Cedric Benson could become more of a weapon also.
I'm not going to argue that the Bears need help on defense - they really do, but they also need an offensive spark if they are going to compete in their division.
I disagree. What is the "type of QB" that the bears need then? If you're looking for an offensive spark, Grossman is the guy. He is accurate and has a big arm. He is also short and slow, so he is limited, but when talking about big play ability, he has it, and if you watched the games he played in after being benched, he looked just fine at QB. Zero chance the bears draft a quarterback in round 1 I say.
bcdrama
Jan 14 2008, 11:40:00 AM
I do not believe they will draft a QB early, but I think they should, if not in the 4th/5th Josh Johnson would be an intriguing project, strong enough arm and mobile and spent early part of his career under the tutledge of former Bear QB Jim Harbaugh.
QUOTE (kdjohansen @ Jan 14 2008, 3:11:19 PM)

I disagree. What is the "type of QB" that the bears need then? If you're looking for an offensive spark, Grossman is the guy. He is accurate and has a big arm. He is also short and slow, so he is limited, but when talking about big play ability, he has it, and if you watched the games he played in after being benched, he looked just fine at QB. Zero chance the bears draft a quarterback in round 1 I say.
yerckson3420
Jan 14 2008, 9:09:34 PM
It all comes down to an o-line when you look at qb play. Without a line Brady and Manning would struggle to take a team to the playoffs. Look at Cle. season. Nobody talks about how they built and spent alot of dough on the o-line. LeCharles Bentley and Steinbach were very expensive and they used the 4th overall pick in the draft on Joe Thomas, who I believe didn't give up a sack all year. I don't by any stretch of the imagination think that the bears have a franchise QB on the roster. But it is hard to evaluate fairly; grossman, benson, orton, greise and ron turner with one of the oldest and worst o-lines in the entire league. Being a bears fan I hope the bears don't overpay for faneca but instead spend their money wisely on G lijla from indy and T gross from carolina. Write a blank check to Tommie Harris or Albert Haynseworth. Let the over-rated briggs go, tag berrian, because they can't afford to lose him nor can they afford to pay him long term. Use the money saved on letting briggs go, losing muhamed and aegunlye and sign burner turner or julius jones. Then use the top 3 picks they have on safety, wideout and o-line. They can do some creative financing and let go greise and benson. Not that I hate either one of them, but for the money they are getting and the amount they produce, it might be better to cut ties. Oh yeah and cut the bum Darwin Walker...PS how do you guys get team pics and stuff up. Because I am computer DUH and can't figure it out and am completely board with just my name!
Guest_vance3_*
Jan 15 2008, 1:41:22 AM
QUOTE (cjs206 @ Jan 10 2008, 12:19:18 PM)

In 05 and 06 the Bears practically were handed their division on a plate, given how bad the Packers, Lions and Vikes were for those 2 years. You could have played Tim Couch at QB and still got to the playoffs in those years, thats how bad your divisional opponents were.
In 07, with a much stronger division, it was proved that Grossman, Griese and Orton are not the type of QBs you need. Kitna and Favre are much better QBs and will win games for their teams, and the Vikes have All Day. The Bears need someone to light up the offense, and that someone is a QB. With and improved passing game, Cedric Benson could become more of a weapon also.
I'm not going to argue that the Bears need help on defense - they really do, but they also need an offensive spark if they are going to compete in their division.
SO when Grossman came in the second half of the monday night game to lead the bears over the Falcons it showed how bad he sucked or how bad the falcons were????????
nyyjones
Jan 16 2008, 1:48:23 AM
QUOTE (yerckson3420 @ Jan 14 2008, 9:09:34 PM)

It all comes down to an o-line when you look at qb play. Without a line Brady and Manning would struggle to take a team to the playoffs. Look at Cle. season. Nobody talks about how they built and spent alot of dough on the o-line. LeCharles Bentley and Steinbach were very expensive and they used the 4th overall pick in the draft on Joe Thomas, who I believe didn't give up a sack all year. I don't by any stretch of the imagination think that the bears have a franchise QB on the roster. But it is hard to evaluate fairly; grossman, benson, orton, greise and ron turner with one of the oldest and worst o-lines in the entire league. Being a bears fan I hope the bears don't overpay for faneca but instead spend their money wisely on G lijla from indy and T gross from carolina. Write a blank check to Tommie Harris or Albert Haynseworth. Let the over-rated briggs go, tag berrian, because they can't afford to lose him nor can they afford to pay him long term. Use the money saved on letting briggs go, losing muhamed and aegunlye and sign burner turner or julius jones. Then use the top 3 picks they have on safety, wideout and o-line. They can do some creative financing and let go greise and benson. Not that I hate either one of them, but for the money they are getting and the amount they produce, it might be better to cut ties. Oh yeah and cut the bum Darwin Walker...PS how do you guys get team pics and stuff up. Because I am computer DUH and can't figure it out and am completely board with just my name!
Briggs is not over-rated, and the Bears will miss him...more than he misses them. Go ahead...tag Berrian...of course that's a smart move...pay a fast WR with hands of stone the average of the top 5 WR in the game...a really smart move there...you all talk about signing Grossman "at a discount." Well, what if another team...maybe Atlanta...maybe Baltimore...maybe Kansas City...maybe Miami...maybe Tampa Bay...maybe San Francisco...maybe the Vikes (YIKES) will look at him, and their "discount" might be more than yours...then what? Your whole scenario here just doesn't add up...especially when you talk of "tagging" a mediocre WR like Berrian.
yerckson3420
Jan 16 2008, 1:10:31 PM
nyjones. Berrian will want a long term deal which the bears can't afford. Muhamed is old, bad and a FA and after that they have wideouts that don't belong on some teams rosters. What do you think they would look like if they let berrian go(I am not the biggest fan of berrian, but they need him) If berrian leaves and muhamed goes. You have a wr core of davis, hester, bradley and some rookies(if they draft some, you never know with angelo). WR typically take about 3 years to blossom and the bears aren't even good at picking them to begin with. Moss (untuchable) and Berrian are the top two wideouts this FA offseason(crayton might have been a descent pick up, but thats out of the question now). So please explain to me what the bears should do. Because as I see it the bears kinda have to sign berrian. Maybe you have some rock solid plan for the bears reciever positions this year.
yerckson3420
Jan 16 2008, 1:21:52 PM
You know what kills me? People act like a GM can go pick guys off a shelf. "I'll take a Brady, a Haynseworth, oh and give me Ed Reed and Walter Jones please". Sometimes you are handcuffed by a bad FA crop coming out. Like this year the wr and qb FA class are not good. Grossman is the best QB available(very very scary) Moss(going back to NE), Berrian("stone hands") and Crayto(resigned longterm) were the top of an otherwise bad WR group. So if you have to put alot of variables into play when you try to dream up a teams off season. I am more than likely the least intelligent football fan on this site, but I just try to be reasonable and realistic when I look at a teams. People play too much fantasy football(i am not implying that you play nyyjones, I am just reffering to sports fans in general), it clouds your thoughts when you look at a multi-million dollar professional franchise.
nyyjones
Jan 16 2008, 11:48:48 PM
QUOTE (yerckson3420 @ Jan 16 2008, 1:21:52 PM)

You know what kills me? People act like a GM can go pick guys off a shelf. "I'll take a Brady, a Haynseworth, oh and give me Ed Reed and Walter Jones please". Sometimes you are handcuffed by a bad FA crop coming out. Like this year the wr and qb FA class are not good. Grossman is the best QB available(very very scary) Moss(going back to NE), Berrian("stone hands") and Crayto(resigned longterm) were the top of an otherwise bad WR group. So if you have to put alot of variables into play when you try to dream up a teams off season. I am more than likely the least intelligent football fan on this site, but I just try to be reasonable and realistic when I look at a teams. People play too much fantasy football(i am not implying that you play nyyjones, I am just reffering to sports fans in general), it clouds your thoughts when you look at a multi-million dollar professional franchise.
On one hand, yerckson3420, you're right. We often do "play GM." However, that's what this board is really about, isn't it? We state what we believe is good or bad for our teams, and others as well, if we have some knowledge of those teams/players. It's "our" chance to play "God," if you will. I admit, there are some posts that show a serious lack of knowledge of either the players, or the business aspect of the game, but that's what you have to deal with...everyone's free to post their opinion...and, you know what they say about opinions.
Anyhow, I understand your views on the receiving corps without Berrian. However, should you overpay a player? I don't think that's a wise decision, because it will only come back to haunt you later on when a more deserving player wants to talk contract.
I also happen to like a certain WR who currently resides on the AZ Cardinal roster, who also in an UFA, and IMO, is a better WR than Berrian. He doesn't have Berrian's Chicago press over-hyped name, and in fact, has been overshadowed by the names and reputations of the other WRs on the Cards. This may actually make him a less expensive alternative. He is a big WR, at 6'3", and has good hands. On top of that, he runs really good routes, something Berrian can't do with a map. His name is Bryant Johnson. Could the Bears sign him? Probably, if they want to, although I'm sure there will be some competition for him. But, if you added him, and a WR later in the draft, IMO, you could be way ahead of where you are now.
yerckson3420
Jan 17 2008, 2:49:23 PM
I don't mean to give the impression that I don't like other people opinions, because thats all I can offer too. I love sites like this because my friends and family have no idea who FA's are, who darren mcfadden is, jerry ireland, jim hendry, rocky wuertz. None of that. You responded perfectly though, I like it when someone responds with a resolution like bryant( which would be wonderful to me) instead of just shooting down an idea and not thinking of the options. Thank you for clarifying the situation and signing him two a 3 or 4 year deal might be cheaper than tagging berrian for one year. That is a great idea. Well done GM nyyjones.
nyyjones
Jan 17 2008, 5:56:50 PM
QUOTE (yerckson3420 @ Jan 17 2008, 2:49:23 PM)

I don't mean to give the impression that I don't like other people opinions, because thats all I can offer too. I love sites like this because my friends and family have no idea who FA's are, who darren mcfadden is, jerry ireland, jim hendry, rocky wuertz. None of that. You responded perfectly though, I like it when someone responds with a resolution like bryant( which would be wonderful to me) instead of just shooting down an idea and not thinking of the options. Thank you for clarifying the situation and signing him two a 3 or 4 year deal might be cheaper than tagging berrian for one year. That is a great idea. Well done GM nyyjones.
Thank you for the compliment, yerckson3420. I also have another WR name for you, although he's technically under contract right now...plus, he will likely cost more than even Berrian. That WR is Donte Stallworth of the NE Pats. If they keep him, at least under the present terms of his contract, it will cost them $11 million this year...a highly unlikely scenario, even for a WR with definite No1 WR skills, talent, and ability...and even less likely if they are to sign Randy Moss, who is a FA. I had a nice chat with NEpats about this very situation, and it's his opinion that Stallworth will be released, and therefore a FA because of the money. However, there is certain to be a lot of competition for him, and he definitely will not be cheap, as he is a proven talent.
yerckson3420
Jan 17 2008, 9:31:42 PM
Yeah he is proven. But very expensive. I question if he can stay healthy. Money would be much better spent on bryant, for the age and price.
cjs206
Jan 18 2008, 5:39:26 AM
QUOTE (yerckson3420 @ Jan 15 2008, 3:09:34 AM)

Write a blank check to Tommie Harris or Albert Haynseworth.
QUOTE (yerckson3420 @ Jan 16 2008, 7:21:52 PM)

You know what kills me? People act like a GM can go pick guys off a shelf. "I'll take a Brady, a Haynseworth, oh and give me Ed Reed and Walter Jones please".
Yerckson, I do enjoy your posts, and your Bears insight is excellent. I did notice the above discrepancy in your posts though...just FYI.
I agree that the Bears O-line is horrible and yes they do need to rebuild it, but I think that can partly be done in FA and later on in the draft -- this draft is seriously deep on the O-line, something that can not be said for the QB position. I also think its highly likely the Bears will have the pick of the QBs, so they can pick the top signal caller. Rex Grossman is not the answer for the Bears IMO.
kdjohansen
Jan 18 2008, 2:27:13 PM
QUOTE (yerckson3420 @ Jan 16 2008, 6:10:31 PM)

nyjones. Berrian will want a long term deal which the bears can't afford. Muhamed is old, bad and a FA and after that they have wideouts that don't belong on some teams rosters. What do you think they would look like if they let berrian go(I am not the biggest fan of berrian, but they need him) If berrian leaves and muhamed goes. You have a wr core of davis, hester, bradley and some rookies(if they draft some, you never know with angelo). WR typically take about 3 years to blossom and the bears aren't even good at picking them to begin with. Moss (untuchable) and Berrian are the top two wideouts this FA offseason(crayton might have been a descent pick up, but thats out of the question now). So please explain to me what the bears should do. Because as I see it the bears kinda have to sign berrian. Maybe you have some rock solid plan for the bears reciever positions this year.
I agree the bears need to keep berrian, basically because there's nothing behind him, but tagging him is not the answer. I think the bears can give berrian a competitive but fair offer and that he'll come back, i really dont think teams are going to give him some huge contract. he does drop some balls, but he also makes some incredible plays, ill take the playmaker, even if they have to overpay him slightly. plus, grossman and berrian have a great connection, you can see the ebbs and flows of berrians 2007 season perfectly coincide with grossmans benching, and then his coming back. if grossman is back in 08, so will berrian imo, and maybe the opposite will be true also.
yerckson3420
Jan 18 2008, 9:48:51 PM
QUOTE
something that can not be said for the QB position. I also think its highly likely the Bears will have the pick of the QBs, so they can pick the top signal caller. Rex Grossman is not the answer for the Bears IMO.
QUOTE
I agree they need a qb, none of the four playoff teams have a bad QB. But this draft to me is bad for qb's, the only one I would take at the 14 spot is ryan. If Brohm is your guy you can trade to about the 20th spot or so. I am not sold on woodson. I would love to take Flacco in the 3rd. The bears drive me nuts. SOmetimes I think they are screwwed for the next 3-4 years then other times I think they still have a core of really good players.
I supposed I did contradict myself with the other post. But they really need to keep harris or sign haynseworth. At least to me. I think @ every level the O and D line are what win for you.
yerckson3420
Jan 26 2008, 6:31:08 PM
I have a guy in the draft, likely with the bears first pick in the 3rd Douglas WR loui. I think he is steve smith from carolina, who happened to be a 3rd rounder from Utah.
daddy woz
Jan 27 2008, 9:39:11 AM
QUOTE (cjs206 @ Jan 18 2008, 10:39:26 AM)

Yerckson, I do enjoy your posts, and your Bears insight is excellent. I did notice the above discrepancy in your posts though...just FYI.
I agree that the Bears O-line is horrible and yes they do need to rebuild it, but I think that can partly be done in FA and later on in the draft -- this draft is seriously deep on the O-line, something that can not be said for the QB position. I also think its highly likely the Bears will have the pick of the QBs, so they can pick the top signal caller. Rex Grossman is not the answer for the Bears IMO.
see, i actually think that rex CAN be the answer if the o-line falls into place. he's being judged on one full season of work, and then a few games sprinkled in the other years. yes, he's inconsistent right now, but isn't that expected of any other "rookie" QB. i say "rookie" simply b/c rex didn't hit game number 16 of his career until over halfway through their SB season. yes, rex could have watched film, and yes, rex was practicing, but it's completely different when you're out on the field trying to compete. basing how he's going to be on less than 2 full seasons of work, to me, isn't the way to evaluate a QB. and, in his first full season, he led the team to the super bowl (though, admittedly, the defense played MUCH better last year than this year.)
i think that if the bears just stuck with one QB during the season, there would be continuity with the entire offense. while that doesn't quite address the poor offensive line, it does, at least, get the timing down between receivers, QB, etc., in game situations. and there's a lot to be said about that. when you switch out QBs, you lose that, and not everyone is on the same page.
though, for some reason, they're all about knee jerk reactions there in chicago, and changing QBs every other week is one of the many reasons they didn't get back to the playoffs.
anyway, i think that you have to go O-line in this draft, like everyone else has said. if you can snag that playmaking safety in the first, then it might be hard to get away from that, as you know mike brown will hurt himself by week 3. plus, if O-line is deep in this draft, and you need o-line help, then wouldn't it make sense to take advantage of that depth? unless there's that one outstanding prospect that, for some reason or another, is still on the board, then maybe you have to do that.
nyyjones
Jan 27 2008, 9:47:41 PM
QUOTE (daddy woz @ Jan 27 2008, 9:39:11 AM)

see, i actually think that rex CAN be the answer if the o-line falls into place. he's being judged on one full season of work, and then a few games sprinkled in the other years. yes, he's inconsistent right now, but isn't that expected of any other "rookie" QB. i say "rookie" simply b/c rex didn't hit game number 16 of his career until over halfway through their SB season. yes, rex could have watched film, and yes, rex was practicing, but it's completely different when you're out on the field trying to compete. basing how he's going to be on less than 2 full seasons of work, to me, isn't the way to evaluate a QB. and, in his first full season, he led the team to the super bowl (though, admittedly, the defense played MUCH better last year than this year.)
i think that if the bears just stuck with one QB during the season, there would be continuity with the entire offense. while that doesn't quite address the poor offensive line, it does, at least, get the timing down between receivers, QB, etc., in game situations. and there's a lot to be said about that. when you switch out QBs, you lose that, and not everyone is on the same page.
though, for some reason, they're all about knee jerk reactions there in chicago, and changing QBs every other week is one of the many reasons they didn't get back to the playoffs.
anyway, i think that you have to go O-line in this draft, like everyone else has said. if you can snag that playmaking safety in the first, then it might be hard to get away from that, as you know mike brown will hurt himself by week 3. plus, if O-line is deep in this draft, and you need o-line help, then wouldn't it make sense to take advantage of that depth? unless there's that one outstanding prospect that, for some reason or another, is still on the board, then maybe you have to do that.
As a Florida resident, and one very familiar with Grossman, I do not share your belief in his ability to lead the Bears to the "promised land," daddy woz. He was inconsistent in college, and a "system" QB to boot. He needs everything to be perfect, and when it is, he will turn your head. But, as we all know, everything is rarely perfect. Rex Grossman would be a perfect backup for a NFL team...but not a starter. He will leave you crying too many times.
Yes, he has a canon for an arm. However, he reads defenses at a first grade level. He's short of stature, and overall size. He gets "happy feet" after he's been sacked, and, he's injury prone too.
I know a lot of people aren't real high on this years QB crop...but trust me...in a few years there will be between 2-4 of them that emerge as SB caliber QBs...and probably at least one who will be a superior QB...all you have to do, is pick the right one. IMO, Grossman is not that QB.
bcdrama
Jan 27 2008, 11:38:39 PM
I'll tell you something funny, when the Bears had Chris Leak, also short 5'11 and 7.8" and a "system" QB, [as all QBs are] BUT very smart, great at reading defenses, accurate, not a howitzer for an arm but throws a beautifully catchable ball I thought that Leak might follow Grossman on 2 levels, that is unlikely but if Woodson, Henne or Flacco is available in round 2 it would be criminal to pass any of them up.
QUOTE (nyyjones @ Jan 28 2008, 2:47:41 AM)

As a Florida resident, and one very familiar with Grossman, I do not share your belief in his ability to lead the Bears to the "promised land," daddy woz. He was inconsistent in college, and a "system" QB to boot. He needs everything to be perfect, and when it is, he will turn your head. But, as we all know, everything is rarely perfect. Rex Grossman would be a perfect backup for a NFL team...but not a starter. He will leave you crying too many times.
Yes, he has a canon for an arm. However, he reads defenses at a first grade level. He's short of stature, and overall size. He gets "happy feet" after he's been sacked, and, he's injury prone too.
I know a lot of people aren't real high on this years QB crop...but trust me...in a few years there will be between 2-4 of them that emerge as SB caliber QBs...and probably at least one who will be a superior QB...all you have to do, is pick the right one. IMO, Grossman is not that QB.
yerckson3420
Jan 28 2008, 12:35:09 PM
Grossman height really bothers me also. When he throws off of his front foot he can be very effective. The fact of the matter is he is too short and often has to throw off of his back foot, which few in the history of the game can do succesfully. I could be wrong but the only good short QB's in the modern era that had any success were Young and Flutie. I want desperately Henne, Flacco or Brohm in that order. I know woodson has the measurements. But I can't for the life of me think of a ggod pro QB with a really slow release. Now Brennan on the other hand lacks woodsons size, and is maybe an inch taller than sexy rexy. Colt may have the quickest release I have seen since Marino(no I am not comparing them talent wise, just realease speed.)
yerckson3420
Jan 28 2008, 4:57:45 PM
I listen to an all chicago sports talk radio station called The Score. Today they had their football expert Hub Arcusch he is the edritor of pro football weekly and a chicago guy thru and thru. He is the guy who has said repeatedly that the bears are really interested in turner as a FA RB.
But today he reported that the bears want to add a DT next to tommie harris. He said that the bears are very fond of sedrick ellis and if they could shore up some other hole via FA that they might do what they can to put ellis next to harris.
I personally am tired of having a bad offense and a good defense. That being said the visions of 2 dt's with that much talent on the same line kinda makes me smile a little.
I typically never grade a draft until 2-4 years later, because lets face we think we have an idea, but we don't have a clue how these guys will really turn out.
Guys like romo and brady and mike anderson are drafted really late or not at all and become quite the shockers.
Then guys like Ryan leaf, david terrell,curtis enis are drafted and are bums.
So as long as the guys chiacgo drafts all turn out to be pro bowlers, then GREAT!
nyyjones
Jan 29 2008, 2:03:32 AM
QUOTE (yerckson3420 @ Jan 28 2008, 12:35:09 PM)

Grossman height really bothers me also. When he throws off of his front foot he can be very effective. The fact of the matter is he is too short and often has to throw off of his back foot, which few in the history of the game can do succesfully. I could be wrong but the only good short QB's in the modern era that had any success were Young and Flutie. I want desperately Henne, Flacco or Brohm in that order. I know woodson has the measurements. But I can't for the life of me think of a ggod pro QB with a really slow release. Now Brennan on the other hand lacks woodsons size, and is maybe an inch taller than sexy rexy. Colt may have the quickest release I have seen since Marino(no I am not comparing them talent wise, just realease speed.)
Grossman does not qualify as "short," ala Flutie. He is 6-1 even, and there have been a number of QBs of similar stature who have been very good, to great in the modern era, starting with Johnny U, Fran Tarkenton, Bob Griese, and Len Dawson were all 6-1 or 6-0 bracket. In the 6-2 bracket you have Steve Young, Joe Namath, and Joe Montana as far as all-time greats.
In today's game, you have Drew Brees, Donovan McNabb, Kurt Warner, Mark Brunell, Steve McNair, Jake Delhomme, Tony Romo, Jeff Garcia, John Kitna, and Aaron Rodgers who are all 6-2 or less, and have taken their teams to the playoffs, or are regarded as being competent starting QBs, or with the potential to become one.
Grossman is 6-1, the same as Brees. Which one would you want? Height does matter, but it is only one part of the equation. The same can be said for arm strength. Grossman has by far the better arm. However, Brees can read a D...does not have happy feet or get flustered after being sacked...is calm and elusive in the pocket...throws a much more accurate and a more "catchable" ball...is not an athlete ala Vick, but nonetheless is a very athletic QB who can and will run if needed...and is a proven leader. All traits Grossman lacks, and shows no signs of attaining. Take away that arm, and what do you have? I'll tell you what you'd have...someone who no NFL team would even consider...much less give a second look at. He's garbage as a starting QB. His NFL future, is as a backup...period.
yerckson3420
Jan 29 2008, 5:07:34 PM
Thankfully Grossman will be gone and I kinda hope we cut griese, because 5 million a year as the highest paid backup is not neccessary. But then we would just be left with Orton. I have know idea what the future holds for the bears. Even though they have a good core of players, they could be in troble for a long time. I will go along with grossman being listed as 6-1, but some bears beat reporter have said that he is not even 6 foot, he is just listed as 6-1. I don't care, my opinion is he just not a good QB and I am not a fan of griese either. But I don't have any magic solutions to fixing a team that has historically been terrible at drafting, developping and playing the QB position.
As to your question on Grossman or Brees. Not even same ballpark. Brees will spend half of his remaining career on the pro bowl team. As long as he stays in the NFC.
This is not second guessing, when SD drafted rivers, I asked myself why they wouldn't sign Brees long term and draft Roy Williams form Texas. Brees, LT, Gates and Roy Williams would have been scary.
daddy woz
Jan 30 2008, 8:07:55 AM
QUOTE (nyyjones @ Jan 27 2008, 10:47:41 PM)

As a Florida resident, and one very familiar with Grossman, I do not share your belief in his ability to lead the Bears to the "promised land," daddy woz. He was inconsistent in college, and a "system" QB to boot. He needs everything to be perfect, and when it is, he will turn your head. But, as we all know, everything is rarely perfect. Rex Grossman would be a perfect backup for a NFL team...but not a starter. He will leave you crying too many times.
Yes, he has a canon for an arm. However, he reads defenses at a first grade level. He's short of stature, and overall size. He gets "happy feet" after he's been sacked, and, he's injury prone too.
I know a lot of people aren't real high on this years QB crop...but trust me...in a few years there will be between 2-4 of them that emerge as SB caliber QBs...and probably at least one who will be a superior QB...all you have to do, is pick the right one. IMO, Grossman is not that QB.
and see, i'm a huge gator fan, so i remember his college days as well. and, me saying that grossman CAN lead his team places doesn't necessarily mean he WILL. he can be the answer at QB. there are things on that team that are a bigger need than QB, in my opinion, and i think that if they can address the offensive line issues, and get a receiver, then things would be a little different.
is he injury prone? well, it's hard to say that he isn't based on his first couple years in the league. but, he's managed to stay pretty healthy the last 2 years, so *maybe* those problems are behind him. only time will tell.
i still believe, too, that he needs the PT to get a better read on defenses. you can only learn so much from film, and i think that if rex can continue to play, this can remedy itself.
there's also a chance that i could be wrong. i completely understand that. but, with the time that rex has played, i don't know if you can really draw a conclusion as to how he's going to be. the only thing you can say he is right now is inconsistent, and the more he plays, the more consistent (theoretically) he should become. again, though, i could be wrong. but it's still too early to judge that.
BNeL21
Jan 30 2008, 2:16:49 PM
QB sucks, O-Line sucks, RB sucks, and WR is about to suck with Muhammed and Berrian most likely leaving. So, this is my best guess at how the draft for them should play out:
1st Round - OL
2nd Round - OL or freefalling QB
3rd Round - QB
4th Round - RB
5th Round - OL
6th Round - DB
7th Round - RB
Granted, I didn't bother looking up to see if they actually have picks in every round. They need to load up on OL prospects. They need a QB to groom since the entire(almost) city of Chicago wants to kill all 3 of ours. A lot of other teams in the league seem to find more than servicable RB's in the later rounds, why can't Angelo? And since he's good at finding late round gems on defense, he should stick to that. WR is not one of Angelo's strongsuits, so I like the idea posted earlier of trying to sign Bryant Johnson from AZ and maybe Stallworth(Big Maybe). Let the bashing of my strategy begin!!!
yerckson3420
Jan 30 2008, 10:18:02 PM
We will have some money under the cap and will likely add at least 2 o-linemane via FA and hopefully turner. Then we can be a little more flexible with the draft.
nyyjones
Jan 30 2008, 11:47:39 PM
QUOTE (daddy woz @ Jan 30 2008, 9:07:55 AM)

and see, i'm a huge gator fan, so i remember his college days as well. and, me saying that grossman CAN lead his team places doesn't necessarily mean he WILL. he can be the answer at QB. there are things on that team that are a bigger need than QB, in my opinion, and i think that if they can address the offensive line issues, and get a receiver, then things would be a little different.
is he injury prone? well, it's hard to say that he isn't based on his first couple years in the league. but, he's managed to stay pretty healthy the last 2 years, so *maybe* those problems are behind him. only time will tell.
i still believe, too, that he needs the PT to get a better read on defenses. you can only learn so much from film, and i think that if rex can continue to play, this can remedy itself.
there's also a chance that i could be wrong. i completely understand that. but, with the time that rex has played, i don't know if you can really draw a conclusion as to how he's going to be. the only thing you can say he is right now is inconsistent, and the more he plays, the more consistent (theoretically) he should become. again, though, i could be wrong. but it's still too early to judge that.
I don't disagree with you, daddy woz, about there being greater needs on the Bears than QB...depending on which QB is there when you draft. If Ryan happens to fall to you, I happen to like him, despite what a lot of others say. Once a player reaches his stature prior to the draft, people start looking for, and emphasizing the negatives. I try to look at the positives. With Ryan, there's two things that stick out for me...his toughness, and his leadership. It's true he doesn't possess a canon arm, but it's not bad either. There have been a lot of QBs who were great with less arms than his. Put his toughness and leadership, along with a more than adequate arm behind center in Chicago, and I think you'd have something...especially if you then concentrated on drafting some of the OL which this draft is very deep in. Say what you want, but depending on who's sitting there when the Bears pick, QB just might be the answer...because Grossman is not.
BNeL21
Jan 31 2008, 9:23:10 AM
QUOTE (yerckson3420 @ Jan 31 2008, 4:18:02 AM)

We will have some money under the cap and will likely add at least 2 o-linemane via FA and hopefully turner. Then we can be a little more flexible with the draft.
I agree that we should add a couple O-Lineman via FA, but I still think that position should be targeted in the draft as well. You replace two starters this year with the FA's, you still have 3 old lineman starting, so you draft OL to weed them out. I'm also of the opinion that Turner is going to get overpaid to underproduce, and might even end of injured trying to carry a full workload. But I hope I'm wrong.
yerckson3420
Jan 31 2008, 9:17:20 PM
Wether we get help form FA or the draft we need; 4 OL, RB, 2 WR, QB, DT, LB and 2 safeties.
Thats just the basics. We will be losing some big contracts; Briggs, Augunleye, Muhamed.
Could cut Darwin Walker, Archulleta, Griese, Benson and Mike Brown. There could be a good amount of money under the cap.
Tommie Harris is a priority.
We could get stronger via FA with guys like Carlos Dansby(cheaper than Briggs, but not as good), WR bryant from ARZ(thanks to NYYjones for pointing him out), Michael Turner, Most importantly, OL like G ray Lijla and T jordan gross.
Could trade a 2nd for chad johnson( I am not a fan of the destracting WR, I prefer a PROFESSIONAL like fitzgerald or steve smith, hines ward)
Could trade a 3rd for billy volek form SD
BNeL21
Feb 1 2008, 9:24:14 AM
QUOTE (yerckson3420 @ Feb 1 2008, 2:17:20 AM)

Could trade a 3rd for billy volek form SD
Kill me now if we trade a first day pick for Billy Volek. I like that even less than I like the thought of resigning Grossman.
I can also pretty close to guarantee that Benson won't get cut, as much as I would be in favor of the move. I would guess it would result in a large cap penalty(just a guess, I didn't look it up). Angelo and Lovie don't want to look wrong about their big time 1st rd draft pick either, even though they were.
Other than those, I'm on board. At least 2 lineman in the draft, one(gross) or two more in FA. Draft a reciever and sign Bryant from AZ. Draft a RB and sign Turner as long as he isn't looking for ridiculous money. Draft Henne or Flacco. Look to the draft or FA to get another DL, OLB, S.
yerckson3420
Feb 1 2008, 2:35:52 PM
Not to be a technical wheenie, but a 3rd rounder is no longer a first day pick. Ha Ha =]
BNeL21
Feb 1 2008, 4:28:34 PM
QUOTE (yerckson3420 @ Feb 1 2008, 7:35:52 PM)

Not to be a technical wheenie, but a 3rd rounder is no longer a first day pick. Ha Ha =]
touche'.
daddy woz
Feb 1 2008, 6:00:55 PM
QUOTE (nyyjones @ Jan 30 2008, 11:47:39 PM)

I don't disagree with you, daddy woz, about there being greater needs on the Bears than QB...depending on which QB is there when you draft. If Ryan happens to fall to you, I happen to like him, despite what a lot of others say. Once a player reaches his stature prior to the draft, people start looking for, and emphasizing the negatives. I try to look at the positives. With Ryan, there's two things that stick out for me...his toughness, and his leadership. It's true he doesn't possess a canon arm, but it's not bad either. There have been a lot of QBs who were great with less arms than his. Put his toughness and leadership, along with a more than adequate arm behind center in Chicago, and I think you'd have something...especially if you then concentrated on drafting some of the OL which this draft is very deep in. Say what you want, but depending on who's sitting there when the Bears pick, QB just might be the answer...because Grossman is not.
well, that's fair enough, i guess. you are right in saying that it really all depends on how the draft goes, and who's available. hell, that's why they took benson #4 a couple years ago.
it's kinda weird, but i'm a bucs fan that knows more about the bears than my own team. however, part of that is b/c of who my friends like, part is where i live (kind of....i'm in michigan now, but grew up in illinois), and i'm close enough to chicago that i listen to chicago sports radio.
anyway, now that that little irrelevant rambling is out of the way, it might not be that far out of the question that ryan falls. then again, he could be the #1 pick in the draft as well. kind of reminds me of aaron rodgers' situation when he was drafted. you just never know with these things.
BNeL21
Feb 2 2008, 2:14:18 PM
QUOTE (daddy woz @ Feb 2 2008, 12:00:55 AM)

well, that's fair enough, i guess. you are right in saying that it really all depends on how the draft goes, and who's available. hell, that's why they took benson #4 a couple years ago.
it's kinda weird, but i'm a bucs fan that knows more about the bears than my own team. however, part of that is b/c of who my friends like, part is where i live (kind of....i'm in michigan now, but grew up in illinois), and i'm close enough to chicago that i listen to chicago sports radio.
anyway, now that that little irrelevant rambling is out of the way, it might not be that far out of the question that ryan falls. then again, he could be the #1 pick in the draft as well. kind of reminds me of aaron rodgers' situation when he was drafted. you just never know with these things.
Unfortunately, I see anybody that starts dropping that the Bears like will get snatched up by the Panthers. Whether it's Matt Ryan or Ryan Clady. What I guess I don't understand, and don't care enough to look up is, of all the teams that are tied at 7-9, the Bears had the strongest(tied I think) strength of schedule, but they are picking last among the 7-9 teams. I just think it should be the opposite, which would have given us the 9th pick, and that many more options(alright, not that many more options, but you know what I mean).
cjs206
Feb 2 2008, 7:36:23 PM
QUOTE (BNeL21 @ Feb 2 2008, 8:14:18 PM)

Unfortunately, I see anybody that starts dropping that the Bears like will get snatched up by the Panthers. Whether it's Matt Ryan or Ryan Clady. What I guess I don't understand, and don't care enough to look up is, of all the teams that are tied at 7-9, the Bears had the strongest(tied I think) strength of schedule, but they are picking last among the 7-9 teams. I just think it should be the opposite, which would have given us the 9th pick, and that many more options(alright, not that many more options, but you know what I mean).
Just to try and sort out your query on the strength of schedule (SOS), lets consider 2 teams who both finish 7-9. One has a SOS of .478 the other has a SOS of .512. For team A, their opponents won 47.8% of their games and for team B, their opponents won 51.2% of their games.
So, because team B faced "better opposition" (because they won more games) they will pick after team A who faced worse opposition. Basically, it ranks how difficult it was for you to get to your wins. If you had an easy schedule, you would expect to win more, whereas facing a tough schedule will mean you expect to win less.
So because team A would have been expected (based on SOS) to win more games than team B, they pick before them in the draft because they are (supposedly) a worse team.
Make sense?
BNeL21
Feb 2 2008, 10:09:42 PM
QUOTE (cjs206 @ Feb 3 2008, 1:36:23 AM)

Just to try and sort out your query on the strength of schedule (SOS), lets consider 2 teams who both finish 7-9. One has a SOS of .478 the other has a SOS of .512. For team A, their opponents won 47.8% of their games and for team B, their opponents won 51.2% of their games.
So, because team B faced "better opposition" (because they won more games) they will pick after team A who faced worse opposition. Basically, it ranks how difficult it was for you to get to your wins. If you had an easy schedule, you would expect to win more, whereas facing a tough schedule will mean you expect to win less.
So because team A would have been expected (based on SOS) to win more games than team B, they pick before them in the draft because they are (supposedly) a worse team.
Make sense?
Yea, and that's pretty much what I figured it was, but I still don't like it(since it doesn't favor my team). Thanks for the breakdown though!
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please
click here.