This first one is if we keep Cassel and resign him:

1-23 D.J. Moore, CB, Vanderbilt
2-49 Fili Moala, 3-4 DE, U.S.C.
2-55 Kevin Ellison, S, U.S.C.
3-87 Raphael Nguti, LOT, Albany
4-119 Cedric Peerman, RB, Virginia
5-151 John Phillips, TE, Virginia
6-183 Tony Washington, WR, Sac State
7-215 Nick Marshman, OG, Virginia Tech

This one is three different scenarios assuming we trade Cassel to K.C. for the #3 and #99 picks:

1-3 Malcolm Jenkins----Aaron Curry----Eugene Monroe
1-23 Jason Smith------D.J. Moore------D.J. Moore
2-49 Jasper Brinkley--Will Beatty------Jasper Brinkley
2-55 Josh Freeman-------same-------------same
3-87 Jarron Gilbert-------same-------------same
4-99 Michael Hamlin or Barry Church or best remaining S
4-119 Cedric Peerman or Tyrell Sutton...best remaining pass-catching RB
5-151 John Phillips--------same------------same
6-183 Tony Washington---or best remaining "hands" WR
7-125 Nick Marshman-----or best remaining developmental OG


Back later with my Detroit trade-scenario mock....

I like the scenario's Jenkins Smith Brinkley would be a great haul it would be interesting to see if we actually got the 3rd pick whether we we keep it or try to trade down into the 10-15 range..the one problem i have is the josh freeman pick he is talented but with us drafting o'connell just last year i don't think they would draft a QB this high or at all. I could see them taking another QB in the 6th or 7th like they did with Cassel and Brady someone they think they can develop

These four scenarios (pivoting off four different possibilities for the first pick) assume that we trade Cassel to Detroit for the #20 and #33 picks in this year's draft:

1-20 Brandon Pettigrew---Brian Cushing---Vontae Davis---James Laurinaitis
1-23 D.J. Moore------------D.J. Moore-------Jason Smith--------D.J. Moore
2-34 Eben Britton ----------Eben Britton-----Clint Sintim---------Eben Britton
2-49 Jasper Brinkley-----Shawn Nelson----Shawn Nelson-----Shawn Nelson
2-55 Josh Freeman------------same------------same----------------same
3-87 Jarron Gilbert------------same------------same----------------same
4-119 Cerdic Peerman or Tyrell Sutton...........................
5-151 Trimane Goddard................................................
6-183 Tony Washington.................................................
7-215 Nick Marshman....................................................


Also, rumors are building that Julius Peppers may be on his way to New England!!

Thanks p4l23...I think they can afford to ALWAYS take BPA after the first round. We develop Freeman for a couple of years, and then turn around and trade him for a first and second in 2011 or 2012!...lol...

Could Alex Boone have just DUId himself into a 4th round Pats ROT starting position?

Hopefully... He had Rakpo on lock in Fiesta bowl.. I still think round 2/3 talent..

Matt Cassel for the 3rd pick in the draft AND a 3rd round pick.


Are you serious?

At best they might swap firsts with New England, but what you're proposing is insane.

but its not

Yes, it is. Matt Cassell isn't Payton Manning, and Scott Pioli isn't a retard.

yeah but hes really good though

Find me one example in the past twenty years of a player being traded for a top 3 overall pick in addition to another early pick with no draft picks coming back to that team... just the player.

they would definitely get a 1st straight up for Cassell not sure bout a 3rd also tho with it

Yea, I'm hearing that too lately. That is about the most they can expect...but that's probably because they are the Patriots, and no one will give them full value in any trades anymore.

Yea i gotta agree with that. There is a couple teams that if I was in control of would trade that to get him. He proved last year he could play and a couple teams need someone like that, because their QBs aint proved it over plenty of time too. Cassell is the real deal.

Yeah, I'm sure that's what it is.

they franchise tagged Cassell

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Auo9...p&type=lgns

I think Brady may not be progressing as well as we thought...

But either way, you've got to trade Cassel if you can get FMV for him. There's no way we can afford to keep both Brady and Cassel. Also, Cassel carries far less "blowback" potential versus trading Brady--for those of you who were thinking we might consider moving Brady for a basket of picks.

Well, you can't trade him until you know Brady is going to be able to play on opening day.

I could see him being traded in May or June, but that would obviously only get you picks for 2010. With all the setbacks that Brady has had, I don't think anyone in the Patriots front office is going to be comfortable sending Cassell away until they go a few months without hearing a surgeon talk about recutting Brady's knee.

I think the Pats will still trade Cassel even without knowing Brady will be 100%. There are plenty of veteran F/A QBs out there that could be had such as Kurt Warner, Kerry Collins, Jeffy Garcia, Rex Grossman, Kyle Boller, Charlie Batch, David Carr, Byron Leftwich, and others. Unless they trade Brady, they have no choice but to trade Cassel. Keeping both would mean dramatic cuts all over the roster.

I think the only reason they tagged Cassel is to get something for him. A first round pick is too high because other teams will be concerned that Cassel is a system player and a 1 year wonder. But I could see them getting a high 2nd from Detroit or KC makes sense. Those teams will not reach for Sanchez or Stafford. Both guys will be gone by the time they pick again so I see one of these teams stepping up and taking Cassel for the price of a top 2nd round pick.

I am not buying that Cassel will yeild a high first round pick. He has the best receivers in the game. They lead the league in yards after catch which shows Cassel can't stretch a field. Teams know Cassel could be a system or 1 year wonder. Everybody also knows the Pats must trade him or Brady (trading Brady ain't happening) so everyone will be looking for a bargain. The teams needing a QB and their draft positions are as follows. Detroit has the most picks to make the deal and I'd think we'd be thrilled with #20 and would likely accept #33 if there are no other offers before the draft.

Detroit #1, #20, #33
Rams #2
KC #3
49ers #10
Jets #17 (no way, no how)
Bears #18
Bucs #19
Vikings #22

Sanchez and Stafford are the only two first rounders right now and neither are ranked higher than 5 with most boards having them between #10 and #18. You have to figure that both will be gone by the time the Jets pick at #17.

In looking at the above it would seem that the Bucs, Detriot (20) and Vikings are the best fits. I don't see the Bears trading their first round pick since they never do. Landing #19, 20 or #22 to go along with our #23 and two 2nd rounders would be sweet.

Comparing Cassel now to the QBs in this draft?...he's a first round pick easy.

Sure the scarcity of NFL-ready QBs in this draft will affect pricing, but I don't think you can rely on it having a huge effect on what you'll get for Cassell.

A late first... probably, but for teams picking in the top half of the draft, I think you're looking at a 2nd and maybe a conditional pick next season.


I'd be shocked if someone gave the Patriots a first round pick in this draft for him. It's just not smart. He's a one year starter. He was in the system two years before he stepped onto the field, and has a receiving corp that most quarterbacks in the league would kill for. I know there were other injuries on the Patriots offense this season, but if you're a GM of a team that needs a quarterback how do you pay a ransom for this guy, cash up front?


And again, Tom Brady has had tons of problems with his knee this season. It's been documented by numerous respected sports writers, Cassell isn't going anywhere until Brady is healthy. If need be they can hold on to Matt Cassell for the 2009 season, franchise him next year, and THEN trade him.

I agree that Cassel is more NFL ready than the QBs in the draft. Stafford and Sanchez however will likely be gobbled up early on likely by pick 10. However, there are other NFL ready QB free agents as I mentioned before. Cassel was listed as the 2nd best in this group shown below.

Kurt Warner
Matt Cassel
Kerry Collins
Jeffy Garcia
Rex Grossman
Kyle Boller
Charlie Batch
David Carr
Byron Leftwich

There are 8 teams potentially in the market for a QB as I mentioned before.

Detroit #1, #20, #33
Rams #2
KC #3
49ers #10
Jets #17 (no way, no how)
Bears #18
Bucs #19
Vikings #22

I'd look for the top two QBs to come off the board by the time the Jets finish picking if not sooner. With perhaps the exception of Warner, Cassel should be the highest sought of any of the F/A QBs. the only problem is the whole planet knows the Pats have to deal him. They cannot afford to keep both Brady and Cassel at this cap hit. If Brady isn't ready, they still have to deal Cassel and sign a veteran QB from the list above. I'd look for Collins or Garcia to come aboard to run the team for the first 6 games potentially. They are both seasoned veterans who've had success and would like a ring.

I think the Pats would be thrilled to get a pick in the 18-22 range for Cassel. Or they could get a high 2nd round and another pick from one of the top 3 drafting teams.

Whatever we are going to do, I say we wait until the last possible moment. I know we'd all like to know what the deal is now so we could get those visions of sugar plum fairies dancing around in our heads for the '09 draft, but the longer we wait, the better we will know where we really stand with Brady. We can wait until the picks we would get are 2010 picks, can't we? What would be the harm in dealing Cassel only when we know FOR SURE Brady will be ready to play? We NEED to have patience here, and I think the Pats office will certainly exercise it..

if any team in the league has patience it is the New England Patriots and I am sure they will deal Cassell at the perfect time possible; when they know they have a Qb ready to lead their team and when they will get the best for Cassell

Trading Brady is not an option. I just consulted with Miguel and the cap hit would be $9MM. Trading Cassel would yeild a $14.5MM cap savings. I think the Pats will look to deal Cassel the first day of free agency if they can. Here why. The Pats have only $3MM of cap space with only 50 players signed. They would have no ability to sign F/A talent let alone draft picks. Moving Cassel is a MUST. He CANNOT be kept as a hedge to Brady. He was only tagged to get FMV. I think it likely we get a 1st round 2010 pick for him which is fine by me and I'm sure the Pats. It sure beats a 3rd round comp pick they would've received.

Who's Miguel?

Haha that was exactly what I was thinking....WHO IS MIGUEL? lol

Here is a new Patriots mock that takes in the following moves (not all moves confirmed yet):

Signing Tully Banta-Cain and trading Mike Vrable (which we will guesstimate as a 5th round pick from Kansas City.)

Signing TEs' Brad Listorti and Chris Baker

Signing RB Fred Taylor

Losing WR Jabar Gaffney

Trading QB Matt Cassel to TB for the 19th pick this year and a 2010 2nd rounder.

Rd---Pick---Player---------Pos-----School
1---19-------Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio State
1---23-------Percy Harvin, WR, Florida
2---49-------Jasper Brinkley, ILB, South Carolina
2---55-------Will Beatty, LOT, UConn
3---87-------Michael Hamlin, SS, Clemson
3-(comp)----Jared Cook, TE, South Carolina
4-unknown--Jarrett Dillard, WR, Rice
5-unknown--Lydon Murtha, 3/4 DE, Nebraska
5-unknown--Johnny Knox, WR, Abilene Christian
6-unknown--Rudy Carpenter, QB, Arizona State
7-unknown--Ryan Mouton, CB, Hawaii

Warning: There are no confirming sources on this supposed Cassell to Tampa Bay rumor. Even the Fox affiliate in Tampa Bay's website (cited as the source) has nothing on it, so hold the phone.

MAY BE AN INTERNET HOAX and nothing more.

Well, now that Scott Pioli has absolutely raped his former team and taken the new captain of his defense (Vrabel) and his franchise QB (Cassel) from us for ONE LOUSY SECOND-ROUND PICK, here is what I am hoping we can do in the draft:

Rd---Pick---Player---------Pos-----School
1---23-------Percy Harvin, WR, Florida
2---34-------Sean Smith, CB, Utah
2---49-------Jasper Brinkley, ILB, South Carolina
2---55-------Will Beatty, LOT, UConn
3---87-------Michael Hamlin, SS, Clemson
3-(comp)----Jared Cook, TE, South Carolina
4-unknown--Jarrett Dillard, WR, Rice
5-unknown--Lydon Murtha, 3/4 DE, Nebraska
6-unknown--Rudy Carpenter, QB, Arizona State
7-unknown--Ryan Mouton, CB, Hawaii

I didn't think it was that horrendous a trade. Patriots needed to move Cassell for the cap space or else they would've negotiated a little tougher. New England now has 3 second round picks, so they should have their lost personnel replaced by April and be ready to contend for the next three Super Bowls... as usual.

Really, this trade could've been a lot worse if the recent Brady news hadn't been as positive.

I will say the Pats trade number 34 and 57 to move into the 18th pick when the best corner in the draft Malcom Jenkins falls that far.

BPB,

There could have been worse news on other fronts, yes, but there is no way anyone is going to tell me that giving up Mike Vrabel and Matt Cassel for the 34th pick was anywhere near a fair return for the Patriots.

This smells of some type of collusion, but that is all I'll be saying for now.

I thought there was a conditional 2010 pick as part of the deal (that's what I'd heard on WEEI around 1:30 this afternoon, anyway). What'd I miss?

Well, that would certainly help if that were true, although I have not heard that anywhere. I heard that after the trade was finally announced as officially completed that the Pats confirmed it was just for the 34th pick.

Did they say what the upper and lower end of the conditionality might be, Erik?

IDK Steve. Looks like the Pats are pretty square. 3 2nds is pretty good. You can get young, cheap, hungry players who will be with you for at least 4 years. Granted this isn't the strongest draft, but you can rebuild that defense and replenish the O line. Look at the positives my friend!!!

Brett, if we had gotten three second-round picks for two of our best players, I wouldn't be complaining.

We should have gotten a bare minimum of two seconds for THIS TRADE of THESE TWO PLAYERS. Anything less than that, and we were taken to the cleaners. If Belichik moves on the Kansas City at any point in the near future, we'd better get a first round pick as compensation!!

67% of New England fans in a recent poll I looked at shows that they feel exactly the way I do about this trade. Anymore sweetheart deals for Pioli and there is going to be hell to pay.

Well, it's irrelevant now, as everything I've seen or heard since says just the 34th overall pick. And you're right, that does sound like a deal pretty heavily in favor of the Chiefs.

Ron Borges playing cover-man for Cassel debacle:

Bill Belichick doesn’t deliver friendly favor
Ron Borges By Ron Borges
Sunday, March 1, 2009 - Added 7h ago
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Scott Pioli soon may learn there is no such thing as friends in the NFL, especially when they used to employ you as their gofer.

Pioli yesterday closed out what he believes was a blockbuster deal with the Patriots [team stats] that landed him his franchise quarterback (literally, in this case), Matt Cassel, and Mike Vrabel, a linebacker who can settle Kansas City’s troubled defense.

And perhaps he did. But if the many in these parts who believe Bill Belichick is Einstein in a hoodie are correct, what Pioli may have gotten instead is Scott Mitchell the sequel and an expensive linebacker on the wrong end of the football timeline.

For the Patriots, this was a best-case scenario. It freed up $17.85 million on their cap and allowed them to get rid of a 12-year veteran whose game had begun to slip as well as a guy Belichick clearly believes was destined to become the most expensive backup in NFL history had he stayed.

Belichick may be proven wrong on the latter point, but it was clearly part of his thinking, because there’s no way he would have left his team exposed at quarterback, the game’s most critical position.

What the Patriots learned during the past few weeks is the market for Cassel was neither deep nor strong. Even two teams thought to be interested, Detroit and Tampa, are now said to have been seeking Cassel only to deal him to Denver to acquire the more highly regarded Jay Cutler.cw-3

If those whispers are true, then there was no market for Cassel outside of Kansas City, which has enough cap space to carry his $14.65 million franchise tag until it can work out a long-term deal.cw-2

To net only a second-round choice for Cassel and Vrabel may seem as though a fire sale went on in Foxboro, especially when you consider that was the price the Eagles paid for A.J. Feeley and what it cost Miami to land the one-legged Daunte Culpepper.cw-3

But if Cassel performs the way they did, it was a steal for Belichick. And there are far more personnel men around pro football who doubt Cassel than ones who believe he’s quarterback of an 11-5 team.

They think his five losses to playoff-contending teams said more about his long-term chances than the 11 wins did against the likes of the Chiefs, 49ers, Seahawks, Bills and Rams.

“I look at Cassel and I think Scott Mitchell,” one longtime NFC personnel man said yesterday. “That’s who I see.”

Pioli better hope not, because that $5 million-a-year seat he’s occupying could become vacant in a hurry if Cassel turns into Mitchell and Vrabel plays like Willie McGinest did in Cleveland.

Like Vrabel, McGinest was a 12-year veteran when he was let go by the Pats. He was two years removed from the second-best year of his career, a 9-sack season, but he’d slipped to six sacks in 2005 and that slide continued with the Browns, where he had four, three and last season only one sack.

Similarly, Vrabel has played 12 years, the past eight in New England. Two years ago he had his most productive season with 12 sacks. Last year he slipped to four and hinted at a shoulder problem related to offseason surgery. Now he’s gone and will arrive in Kansas City at the same age and experience level as McGinest did when he went to Cleveland. After 12 years in the NFL, linebackers do not typically improve. They usually implode.

If Vrabel turns into McGinest and Cassel is Mitchell, Pioli will have learned a hard lesson about friendship, NFL style.

In 1993, Mitchell stepped in for the injured Dan Marino and played well enough to convince the Detroit Lions to pay him a ton of money the following season. He started for four years, went 27-28 and was 0-2 in the playoffs.

Mitchell’s solid play in Miami proved a mirage, even though he went to a far more talented offensive team in Detroit (Barry Sanders, Herman Moore, Brett Perriman) than Cassel will inherit in Kansas City.

The Chiefs have an unhappy running back in Larry Johnson, an unhappy tight end in Tony Gonzalez and a wide receiving corps Cassel will find far less user friendly than Randy Moss and Wes Welker.

In the end only time will tell if Cassel is a player worth the money he’ll be paid, if Vrabel can justify his $3.2 million salary this season and if Brady’s knee is sound. But from what we know today it looks like Belichick didn’t do his old friend any favors, which is no surprise because he’s not in the business of doing favors. He’s in the football business.

I have a friend who is paparazzi. He's been on the Brady/Giselle beat following them around. Brady was at Riviera CC in LA a couple of weeks ago and played a round of golf and was walking without a limp. My friend tells me that the Giselle lady he married is a real piece of work. Primadonna/starlet who's never happy type lady.

Yea, I was just telling my wife the other day that Tom made a poor choice. If he becomes "Mr. Material," IMHO, he will lose effectiveness in many areas of his life.

He should have married some sweet, gorgeous farmer's daughter. JMO...

Collusion? What would the Patriots possibly have to gain by selling their players at a discount to an AFC team?

I'm not saying that it's fair. It's not fair that there are probably half a dozen teams that are willing to sign Mike Vick, but won't trade for him b/c they'd have to take his contract.

I'm saying that under the circumstances, which aren't ideal for New England, this isn't that bad. Bellichick will get a player with that pick who's probably going to out-perform most if not all of the final 10 players drafted in the first round, and he'll be markedly cheaper for the Patriots for 4 years.


Buck up. You're going to be a Super Bowl contender, regardless. This way at least you have time to go out and nail a free agent or two.

He really seems to be taking to that Hollywood lifestyle. I can't see her going to Boston to live with him during the season. Usually he's in NYC during his off time in season.

Apparently the way the story will be left is that both Detroit and Tampa Bay were willing to give up a first round pick (would have to have been Detroit's send first rounder) for Cassel, BUT ONLY IF Denver would agree to swap Cutler for that pick. When Denver said no, the deal supposedly fell apart.

If that is true, I'm feeling a little better about getting just the #34, but we may never know the full truth.

HOWEVER, If BB decides to fly the coup to KC, I am going to scream bloody murder and the Pats should look into some sort of compensation for blatant collusion.

Wouldn't BB have to be the one who made the trade? I may not know the pats well enough. But do they not have a GN that would have made the trade in the best interest of the Pats?

If BB did indeed make the trade call then you have a great case if he leaves for KC!!

Yeah, I'm with yerkson. I don't see a case here to even suspect collusion. If Pioli had made the deal BEFORE he left for K.C., then YES, Obviously it's a matter for the competition committee to examine, but otherwise there's no case here. The Patriots didn't become a dominant team by making stupid trades or by dealing players for less than they were worth.

I think this is a square deal.

This would be a good draft though now with Vrabel gone (unless they sign Jason Taylor) They could use another OLB like Connor Barwin. Also do you think they will draft a safety that early with Merriweather and Sanders (whose very underrated) i could see them using a 4th or 5th on someone to back them up but a 4rd seems early. Also same goes to the Cook pick He's a talented TE but with Watson Thomas and Baker plus Lisorti and Devree would they take another? As i was typing that i remembered we use to pick a TE every draft and now realize youre probably right.