I am saddened by the recent demise of these two once-top-tier programs. Does anybody want to comment on what happened to bring them both down from perennial TOP 10 status to NCAA IA also-rans??
Also, do you see the future brightening at all for either of these teams? TIA.
Full Version: Penn State and Notre Dame
QUOTE(mepatriot @ May 22 2004, 08:59 AM)
I am saddened by the recent demise of these two once-top-tier programs. Does anybody want to comment on what happened to bring them both down from perennial TOP 10 status to NCAA IA also-rans??
Also, do you see the future brightening at all for either of these teams? TIA.
Also, do you see the future brightening at all for either of these teams? TIA.
They arent getting recruits! All Midwest recruits want OSU or UM. They used to want PSU and ND. Also, Penn State has not been the same since Jerry Sandusky left as the D Coordinator.
I have never been a fan of Notre Dame and kind of like seeing them struggle but PSU needs to get rid of the legend now. He is 70+ years old, from friends I have spoken to that played for him he does not coach he is only there to be a figure head.
Penn State is my 2nd love behind MSU so I hate to see the Lions struggling. JoPa has lost it, but he can still bring in the recruits.
My mother talks about how Joe Paterno was on the cover of the Sporting News in 1975 as Coach of the Year.
Getting the recruits, come on Adam, you can get top classes all you want, but if you dont develop and win it, what is the point of that recruiting class. Aside from Courtney Brown (AKA Bust Baby) and LaVar Arrington in recent years, Penn State has not been in top shape since the 1994 undefeated season. Kerry Collins and Joe Jurevicous have prolly been the best he has produced in recent years. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of another player (other than Arrington) that hasnt been a bust in the past 5-10 years from PSU (possibly Jeff Hartings but he struggled with the Lions). Curtis Enis-bust, Ki-Jana Carter- the gods were not smiling on this shining pro, Courtney Brown- see above.
10 years of loneliness in Happy Valley. I know that Joe Paterno is to Penn State as Tradition is to the Rose Bowl, but even the tournament of roses fell to AT&T. Look at Nebraska, they have finally caved to a modern offense, as well as Notre Dame. Both ND and the Huskers have made steps to return to greatness, as the Nittany Lions are just plain stuck.
Getting the recruits, come on Adam, you can get top classes all you want, but if you dont develop and win it, what is the point of that recruiting class. Aside from Courtney Brown (AKA Bust Baby) and LaVar Arrington in recent years, Penn State has not been in top shape since the 1994 undefeated season. Kerry Collins and Joe Jurevicous have prolly been the best he has produced in recent years. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of another player (other than Arrington) that hasnt been a bust in the past 5-10 years from PSU (possibly Jeff Hartings but he struggled with the Lions). Curtis Enis-bust, Ki-Jana Carter- the gods were not smiling on this shining pro, Courtney Brown- see above.
10 years of loneliness in Happy Valley. I know that Joe Paterno is to Penn State as Tradition is to the Rose Bowl, but even the tournament of roses fell to AT&T. Look at Nebraska, they have finally caved to a modern offense, as well as Notre Dame. Both ND and the Huskers have made steps to return to greatness, as the Nittany Lions are just plain stuck.
QUOTE(sgtslaughter @ May 25 2004, 02:49 PM)
My mother talks about how Joe Paterno was on the cover of the Sporting News in 1975 as Coach of the Year.
Getting the recruits, come on Adam, you can get top classes all you want, but if you dont develop and win it, what is the point of that recruiting class. Aside from Courtney Brown (AKA Bust Baby) and LaVar Arrington in recent years, Penn State has not been in top shape since the 1994 undefeated season. Kerry Collins and Joe Jurevicous have prolly been the best he has produced in recent years. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of another player (other than Arrington) that hasnt been a bust in the past 5-10 years from PSU (possibly Jeff Hartings but he struggled with the Lions). Curtis Enis-bust, Ki-Jana Carter- the gods were not smiling on this shining pro, Courtney Brown- see above.
10 years of loneliness in Happy Valley. I know that Joe Paterno is to Penn State as Tradition is to the Rose Bowl, but even the tournament of roses fell to AT&T. Look at Nebraska, they have finally caved to a modern offense, as well as Notre Dame. Both ND and the Huskers have made steps to return to greatness, as the Nittany Lions are just plain stuck.
Getting the recruits, come on Adam, you can get top classes all you want, but if you dont develop and win it, what is the point of that recruiting class. Aside from Courtney Brown (AKA Bust Baby) and LaVar Arrington in recent years, Penn State has not been in top shape since the 1994 undefeated season. Kerry Collins and Joe Jurevicous have prolly been the best he has produced in recent years. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of another player (other than Arrington) that hasnt been a bust in the past 5-10 years from PSU (possibly Jeff Hartings but he struggled with the Lions). Curtis Enis-bust, Ki-Jana Carter- the gods were not smiling on this shining pro, Courtney Brown- see above.
10 years of loneliness in Happy Valley. I know that Joe Paterno is to Penn State as Tradition is to the Rose Bowl, but even the tournament of roses fell to AT&T. Look at Nebraska, they have finally caved to a modern offense, as well as Notre Dame. Both ND and the Huskers have made steps to return to greatness, as the Nittany Lions are just plain stuck.
Hey Pat, did you watch last years draft? 4 PSU guys went in the first round!
Jimmy Kennedy
Larry Johnson
Bryant Johnson
Michael Haynes
Penn St. is getting players. Like I said, Sandusky is the key here.
Other notables
Brandon Short is a top tackler for the Giants
David Macklin is a decent DB in Indy
Kerry Collins has thrown for more yards than anyone in the NFC in the last 5 yrs.
PSU had a very down year and everyone is ready to ignore a top team.
OK, Adam, what did those freaking 1st rounders do in college. JACK! Great that they have pro potential, GREAT, that they have the excellent ability to play at the next level and even be drafted in the 1st Round.
My own analysis of the PSU 2003 class:
Larry Johnson: Overrated, ran for 400 yds on a poor (and I am a homer) Michigan State defense. Will not play a single down for the Chiefs until Holmes hangs 'em up. He even bashed your sacred cow,Joe Pa, for not hyping his Heisman campaign.
Jimmy Kennedy: Netted a single tackle for the Rams. Considered a top 10 pick, slipped to St. Louis.
Bryant Johnson: Considered a "reach" in the first round. Had 35 catches 400+ yds and a touch in his rookie campaign, not bad, but oh yeah, he plays for Arizona.
Michael Haynes: Also considered a "reach" for Chicago, not very impressive collegiate career, but Im not one to knock, neither did I, BUT I had more tackles on Special Teams in Ohio than Haynes did in Chicago (21 in 16 games)
Give me the point stat boy!
SARGE
My own analysis of the PSU 2003 class:
Larry Johnson: Overrated, ran for 400 yds on a poor (and I am a homer) Michigan State defense. Will not play a single down for the Chiefs until Holmes hangs 'em up. He even bashed your sacred cow,Joe Pa, for not hyping his Heisman campaign.
Jimmy Kennedy: Netted a single tackle for the Rams. Considered a top 10 pick, slipped to St. Louis.
Bryant Johnson: Considered a "reach" in the first round. Had 35 catches 400+ yds and a touch in his rookie campaign, not bad, but oh yeah, he plays for Arizona.
Michael Haynes: Also considered a "reach" for Chicago, not very impressive collegiate career, but Im not one to knock, neither did I, BUT I had more tackles on Special Teams in Ohio than Haynes did in Chicago (21 in 16 games)
Give me the point stat boy!
SARGE
This is so gonna be Woody Paige vs. Michael Holley, me being Holley of course. A few thoughts.
When do any DT do well their first year?
Johnson had a fine campaign with the Cards
Haynes was never good, but somehow was a 1st rounder
Larry Johnson-First guy in Big 10 to rush for 2000. I dont care for how much against who! ARe you gonna discredit Jamal Lewis because he ran for 500 on the Browns? Prolly not. And name any rookie who would play over Priest Holmes?
Only Haynes of this group will suck, and we will see when Harris and Johnson take the pressure off the end spot.
Thank you for pulling a Mariotti and proving my point and discrediting your own.
Yes, Haynes will suck, thank you (Point)
Should we excuse all DT's entering the NFL and have low expectationns of production even when they are a first rounder, I think not, yes the DT position is basically to get blocked to create havoc for the LB'ers to run around. BUT if you are a first rounder on defense I believe (and tell if I am wrong) a player should garner more than a single tackle. I mean all he had to do was put one of those bear claws of an arm out on a RB and he may have a had a deuce (speaking of deuce, give me another)
I am sure that Johnson will be catching a lot balls this year, but wait, didnt the Cards draft another WR this year? Yeah, and Denny Green is going to be callin his number plenty. It was nice in Phoenix while it lasted for that Nittany Lion. Sorry buddy (one more)
Jamal Lewis did play over Priest Holmes as rookie in Baltimore (point), Jamal Lewis' 2,000 yard campaign and Johnson's are completely uncomparable, regardless of the fact that they were at different levels of competition.
But finally, the original question Adam, is that Joe Paterno needs to get out of football, your argument was that he still brings in recruits, SO WHAT? When was the last Big 10 Championship with all those blue chippers? So yeah, it would be nice to say my little boy played for Joe Pa, but hey, times are a changing my man, its nice that PSU had four first rounders last year, but I think the majority of Happy Valley would be "happier" with a run at the roses
SARGE
Yes, Haynes will suck, thank you (Point)
Should we excuse all DT's entering the NFL and have low expectationns of production even when they are a first rounder, I think not, yes the DT position is basically to get blocked to create havoc for the LB'ers to run around. BUT if you are a first rounder on defense I believe (and tell if I am wrong) a player should garner more than a single tackle. I mean all he had to do was put one of those bear claws of an arm out on a RB and he may have a had a deuce (speaking of deuce, give me another)
I am sure that Johnson will be catching a lot balls this year, but wait, didnt the Cards draft another WR this year? Yeah, and Denny Green is going to be callin his number plenty. It was nice in Phoenix while it lasted for that Nittany Lion. Sorry buddy (one more)
Jamal Lewis did play over Priest Holmes as rookie in Baltimore (point), Jamal Lewis' 2,000 yard campaign and Johnson's are completely uncomparable, regardless of the fact that they were at different levels of competition.
But finally, the original question Adam, is that Joe Paterno needs to get out of football, your argument was that he still brings in recruits, SO WHAT? When was the last Big 10 Championship with all those blue chippers? So yeah, it would be nice to say my little boy played for Joe Pa, but hey, times are a changing my man, its nice that PSU had four first rounders last year, but I think the majority of Happy Valley would be "happier" with a run at the roses
SARGE
QUOTE(sgtslaughter @ May 26 2004, 10:28 PM)
Thank you for pulling a Mariotti and proving my point and discrediting your own.
Yes, Haynes will suck, thank you (Point)
Should we excuse all DT's entering the NFL and have low expectationns of production even when they are a first rounder, I think not, yes the DT position is basically to get blocked to create havoc for the LB'ers to run around. BUT if you are a first rounder on defense I believe (and tell if I am wrong) a player should garner more than a single tackle. I mean all he had to do was put one of those bear claws of an arm out on a RB and he may have a had a deuce (speaking of deuce, give me another)
I am sure that Johnson will be catching a lot balls this year, but wait, didnt the Cards draft another WR this year? Yeah, and Denny Green is going to be callin his number plenty. It was nice in Phoenix while it lasted for that Nittany Lion. Sorry buddy (one more)
Jamal Lewis did play over Priest Holmes as rookie in Baltimore (point), Jamal Lewis' 2,000 yard campaign and Johnson's are completely uncomparable, regardless of the fact that they were at different levels of competition.
But finally, the original question Adam, is that Joe Paterno needs to get out of football, your argument was that he still brings in recruits, SO WHAT? When was the last Big 10 Championship with all those blue chippers? So yeah, it would be nice to say my little boy played for Joe Pa, but hey, times are a changing my man, its nice that PSU had four first rounders last year, but I think the majority of Happy Valley would be "happier" with a run at the roses
SARGE
Yes, Haynes will suck, thank you (Point)
Should we excuse all DT's entering the NFL and have low expectationns of production even when they are a first rounder, I think not, yes the DT position is basically to get blocked to create havoc for the LB'ers to run around. BUT if you are a first rounder on defense I believe (and tell if I am wrong) a player should garner more than a single tackle. I mean all he had to do was put one of those bear claws of an arm out on a RB and he may have a had a deuce (speaking of deuce, give me another)
I am sure that Johnson will be catching a lot balls this year, but wait, didnt the Cards draft another WR this year? Yeah, and Denny Green is going to be callin his number plenty. It was nice in Phoenix while it lasted for that Nittany Lion. Sorry buddy (one more)
Jamal Lewis did play over Priest Holmes as rookie in Baltimore (point), Jamal Lewis' 2,000 yard campaign and Johnson's are completely uncomparable, regardless of the fact that they were at different levels of competition.
But finally, the original question Adam, is that Joe Paterno needs to get out of football, your argument was that he still brings in recruits, SO WHAT? When was the last Big 10 Championship with all those blue chippers? So yeah, it would be nice to say my little boy played for Joe Pa, but hey, times are a changing my man, its nice that PSU had four first rounders last year, but I think the majority of Happy Valley would be "happier" with a run at the roses
SARGE
You misread my quote Woody.
Who is gonna play over Holmes NOW in KC? Certaintly not a rookie. Im not ready to count Jo Pa out yet. Hes only had 2 or 3 loosing seasons in his long career. They will be in the race again.
Perhaps, but should they be in it again, it will have nothing to do with Ol Joe. It is definitely time for him to step aside.
PennState had a great recruiting class this year. They will step it up and be a top 10 team again in the upcoming years with Morelli at Qb and Austin Scott running the ball
My mother talks about how Joe Paterno was on the cover of the Sporting News in 1975 as Coach of the Year.
Getting the recruits, come on Adam, you can get top classes all you want, but if you dont develop and win it, what is the point of that recruiting class. Aside from Courtney Brown (AKA Bust Baby) and LaVar Arrington in recent years, Penn State has not been in top shape since the 1994 undefeated season. Kerry Collins and Joe Jurevicous have prolly been the best he has produced in recent years. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of another player (other than Arrington) that hasnt been a bust in the past 5-10 years from PSU (possibly Jeff Hartings but he struggled with the Lions). Curtis Enis-bust, Ki-Jana Carter- the gods were not smiling on this shining pro, Courtney Brown- see above.
10 years of loneliness in Happy Valley. I know that Joe Paterno is to Penn State as Tradition is to the Rose Bowl, but even the tournament of roses fell to AT&T. Look at Nebraska, they have finally caved to a modern offense, as well as Notre Dame. Both ND and the Huskers have made steps to return to greatness, as the Nittany Lions are just plain stuck.
Getting the recruits, come on Adam, you can get top classes all you want, but if you dont develop and win it, what is the point of that recruiting class. Aside from Courtney Brown (AKA Bust Baby) and LaVar Arrington in recent years, Penn State has not been in top shape since the 1994 undefeated season. Kerry Collins and Joe Jurevicous have prolly been the best he has produced in recent years. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of another player (other than Arrington) that hasnt been a bust in the past 5-10 years from PSU (possibly Jeff Hartings but he struggled with the Lions). Curtis Enis-bust, Ki-Jana Carter- the gods were not smiling on this shining pro, Courtney Brown- see above.
10 years of loneliness in Happy Valley. I know that Joe Paterno is to Penn State as Tradition is to the Rose Bowl, but even the tournament of roses fell to AT&T. Look at Nebraska, they have finally caved to a modern offense, as well as Notre Dame. Both ND and the Huskers have made steps to return to greatness, as the Nittany Lions are just plain stuck.
My mother talks about how Joe Paterno was on the cover of the Sporting News in 1975 as Coach of the Year.
Getting the recruits, come on Adam, you can get top classes all you want, but if you dont develop and win it, what is the point of that recruiting class. Aside from Courtney Brown (AKA Bust Baby) and LaVar Arrington in recent years, Penn State has not been in top shape since the 1994 undefeated season. Kerry Collins and Joe Jurevicous have prolly been the best he has produced in recent years. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of another player (other than Arrington) that hasnt been a bust in the past 5-10 years from PSU (possibly Jeff Hartings but he struggled with the Lions). Curtis Enis-bust, Ki-Jana Carter- the gods were not smiling on this shining pro, Courtney Brown- see above.
10 years of loneliness in Happy Valley. I know that Joe Paterno is to Penn State as Tradition is to the Rose Bowl, but even the tournament of roses fell to AT&T. Look at Nebraska, they have finally caved to a modern offense, as well as Notre Dame. Both ND and the Huskers have made steps to return to greatness, as the Nittany Lions are just plain stuck.
Getting the recruits, come on Adam, you can get top classes all you want, but if you dont develop and win it, what is the point of that recruiting class. Aside from Courtney Brown (AKA Bust Baby) and LaVar Arrington in recent years, Penn State has not been in top shape since the 1994 undefeated season. Kerry Collins and Joe Jurevicous have prolly been the best he has produced in recent years. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of another player (other than Arrington) that hasnt been a bust in the past 5-10 years from PSU (possibly Jeff Hartings but he struggled with the Lions). Curtis Enis-bust, Ki-Jana Carter- the gods were not smiling on this shining pro, Courtney Brown- see above.
10 years of loneliness in Happy Valley. I know that Joe Paterno is to Penn State as Tradition is to the Rose Bowl, but even the tournament of roses fell to AT&T. Look at Nebraska, they have finally caved to a modern offense, as well as Notre Dame. Both ND and the Huskers have made steps to return to greatness, as the Nittany Lions are just plain stuck.
I am saddened by the recent demise of these two once-top-tier programs. Does anybody want to comment on what happened to bring them both down from perennial TOP 10 status to NCAA IA also-rans??
Also, do you see the future brightening at all for either of these teams? TIA.
Also, do you see the future brightening at all for either of these teams? TIA.
QUOTE(mepatriot @ May 22 2004, 08:59 AM)
I am saddened by the recent demise of these two once-top-tier programs. Does anybody want to comment on what happened to bring them both down from perennial TOP 10 status to NCAA IA also-rans??
Also, do you see the future brightening at all for either of these teams? TIA.
Also, do you see the future brightening at all for either of these teams? TIA.
They arent getting recruits! All Midwest recruits want OSU or UM. They used to want PSU and ND. Also, Penn State has not been the same since Jerry Sandusky left as the D Coordinator.
I have never been a fan of Notre Dame and kind of like seeing them struggle but PSU needs to get rid of the legend now. He is 70+ years old, from friends I have spoken to that played for him he does not coach he is only there to be a figure head.
Penn State is my 2nd love behind MSU so I hate to see the Lions struggling. JoPa has lost it, but he can still bring in the recruits.
QUOTE(sgtslaughter @ May 25 2004, 02:49 PM)
My mother talks about how Joe Paterno was on the cover of the Sporting News in 1975 as Coach of the Year.
Getting the recruits, come on Adam, you can get top classes all you want, but if you dont develop and win it, what is the point of that recruiting class. Aside from Courtney Brown (AKA Bust Baby) and LaVar Arrington in recent years, Penn State has not been in top shape since the 1994 undefeated season. Kerry Collins and Joe Jurevicous have prolly been the best he has produced in recent years. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of another player (other than Arrington) that hasnt been a bust in the past 5-10 years from PSU (possibly Jeff Hartings but he struggled with the Lions). Curtis Enis-bust, Ki-Jana Carter- the gods were not smiling on this shining pro, Courtney Brown- see above.
10 years of loneliness in Happy Valley. I know that Joe Paterno is to Penn State as Tradition is to the Rose Bowl, but even the tournament of roses fell to AT&T. Look at Nebraska, they have finally caved to a modern offense, as well as Notre Dame. Both ND and the Huskers have made steps to return to greatness, as the Nittany Lions are just plain stuck.
Getting the recruits, come on Adam, you can get top classes all you want, but if you dont develop and win it, what is the point of that recruiting class. Aside from Courtney Brown (AKA Bust Baby) and LaVar Arrington in recent years, Penn State has not been in top shape since the 1994 undefeated season. Kerry Collins and Joe Jurevicous have prolly been the best he has produced in recent years. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of another player (other than Arrington) that hasnt been a bust in the past 5-10 years from PSU (possibly Jeff Hartings but he struggled with the Lions). Curtis Enis-bust, Ki-Jana Carter- the gods were not smiling on this shining pro, Courtney Brown- see above.
10 years of loneliness in Happy Valley. I know that Joe Paterno is to Penn State as Tradition is to the Rose Bowl, but even the tournament of roses fell to AT&T. Look at Nebraska, they have finally caved to a modern offense, as well as Notre Dame. Both ND and the Huskers have made steps to return to greatness, as the Nittany Lions are just plain stuck.
Hey Pat, did you watch last years draft? 4 PSU guys went in the first round!
Jimmy Kennedy
Larry Johnson
Bryant Johnson
Michael Haynes
Penn St. is getting players. Like I said, Sandusky is the key here.
Other notables
Brandon Short is a top tackler for the Giants
David Macklin is a decent DB in Indy
Kerry Collins has thrown for more yards than anyone in the NFC in the last 5 yrs.
PSU had a very down year and everyone is ready to ignore a top team.
OK, Adam, what did those freaking 1st rounders do in college. JACK! Great that they have pro potential, GREAT, that they have the excellent ability to play at the next level and even be drafted in the 1st Round.
My own analysis of the PSU 2003 class:
Larry Johnson: Overrated, ran for 400 yds on a poor (and I am a homer) Michigan State defense. Will not play a single down for the Chiefs until Holmes hangs 'em up. He even bashed your sacred cow,Joe Pa, for not hyping his Heisman campaign.
Jimmy Kennedy: Netted a single tackle for the Rams. Considered a top 10 pick, slipped to St. Louis.
Bryant Johnson: Considered a "reach" in the first round. Had 35 catches 400+ yds and a touch in his rookie campaign, not bad, but oh yeah, he plays for Arizona.
Michael Haynes: Also considered a "reach" for Chicago, not very impressive collegiate career, but Im not one to knock, neither did I, BUT I had more tackles on Special Teams in Ohio than Haynes did in Chicago (21 in 16 games)
Give me the point stat boy!
SARGE
My own analysis of the PSU 2003 class:
Larry Johnson: Overrated, ran for 400 yds on a poor (and I am a homer) Michigan State defense. Will not play a single down for the Chiefs until Holmes hangs 'em up. He even bashed your sacred cow,Joe Pa, for not hyping his Heisman campaign.
Jimmy Kennedy: Netted a single tackle for the Rams. Considered a top 10 pick, slipped to St. Louis.
Bryant Johnson: Considered a "reach" in the first round. Had 35 catches 400+ yds and a touch in his rookie campaign, not bad, but oh yeah, he plays for Arizona.
Michael Haynes: Also considered a "reach" for Chicago, not very impressive collegiate career, but Im not one to knock, neither did I, BUT I had more tackles on Special Teams in Ohio than Haynes did in Chicago (21 in 16 games)
Give me the point stat boy!
SARGE
This is so gonna be Woody Paige vs. Michael Holley, me being Holley of course. A few thoughts.
When do any DT do well their first year?
Johnson had a fine campaign with the Cards
Haynes was never good, but somehow was a 1st rounder
Larry Johnson-First guy in Big 10 to rush for 2000. I dont care for how much against who! ARe you gonna discredit Jamal Lewis because he ran for 500 on the Browns? Prolly not. And name any rookie who would play over Priest Holmes?
Only Haynes of this group will suck, and we will see when Harris and Johnson take the pressure off the end spot.
Thank you for pulling a Mariotti and proving my point and discrediting your own.
Yes, Haynes will suck, thank you (Point)
Should we excuse all DT's entering the NFL and have low expectationns of production even when they are a first rounder, I think not, yes the DT position is basically to get blocked to create havoc for the LB'ers to run around. BUT if you are a first rounder on defense I believe (and tell if I am wrong) a player should garner more than a single tackle. I mean all he had to do was put one of those bear claws of an arm out on a RB and he may have a had a deuce (speaking of deuce, give me another)
I am sure that Johnson will be catching a lot balls this year, but wait, didnt the Cards draft another WR this year? Yeah, and Denny Green is going to be callin his number plenty. It was nice in Phoenix while it lasted for that Nittany Lion. Sorry buddy (one more)
Jamal Lewis did play over Priest Holmes as rookie in Baltimore (point), Jamal Lewis' 2,000 yard campaign and Johnson's are completely uncomparable, regardless of the fact that they were at different levels of competition.
But finally, the original question Adam, is that Joe Paterno needs to get out of football, your argument was that he still brings in recruits, SO WHAT? When was the last Big 10 Championship with all those blue chippers? So yeah, it would be nice to say my little boy played for Joe Pa, but hey, times are a changing my man, its nice that PSU had four first rounders last year, but I think the majority of Happy Valley would be "happier" with a run at the roses
SARGE
Yes, Haynes will suck, thank you (Point)
Should we excuse all DT's entering the NFL and have low expectationns of production even when they are a first rounder, I think not, yes the DT position is basically to get blocked to create havoc for the LB'ers to run around. BUT if you are a first rounder on defense I believe (and tell if I am wrong) a player should garner more than a single tackle. I mean all he had to do was put one of those bear claws of an arm out on a RB and he may have a had a deuce (speaking of deuce, give me another)
I am sure that Johnson will be catching a lot balls this year, but wait, didnt the Cards draft another WR this year? Yeah, and Denny Green is going to be callin his number plenty. It was nice in Phoenix while it lasted for that Nittany Lion. Sorry buddy (one more)
Jamal Lewis did play over Priest Holmes as rookie in Baltimore (point), Jamal Lewis' 2,000 yard campaign and Johnson's are completely uncomparable, regardless of the fact that they were at different levels of competition.
But finally, the original question Adam, is that Joe Paterno needs to get out of football, your argument was that he still brings in recruits, SO WHAT? When was the last Big 10 Championship with all those blue chippers? So yeah, it would be nice to say my little boy played for Joe Pa, but hey, times are a changing my man, its nice that PSU had four first rounders last year, but I think the majority of Happy Valley would be "happier" with a run at the roses
SARGE
QUOTE(sgtslaughter @ May 26 2004, 10:28 PM)
Thank you for pulling a Mariotti and proving my point and discrediting your own.
Yes, Haynes will suck, thank you (Point)
Should we excuse all DT's entering the NFL and have low expectationns of production even when they are a first rounder, I think not, yes the DT position is basically to get blocked to create havoc for the LB'ers to run around. BUT if you are a first rounder on defense I believe (and tell if I am wrong) a player should garner more than a single tackle. I mean all he had to do was put one of those bear claws of an arm out on a RB and he may have a had a deuce (speaking of deuce, give me another)
I am sure that Johnson will be catching a lot balls this year, but wait, didnt the Cards draft another WR this year? Yeah, and Denny Green is going to be callin his number plenty. It was nice in Phoenix while it lasted for that Nittany Lion. Sorry buddy (one more)
Jamal Lewis did play over Priest Holmes as rookie in Baltimore (point), Jamal Lewis' 2,000 yard campaign and Johnson's are completely uncomparable, regardless of the fact that they were at different levels of competition.
But finally, the original question Adam, is that Joe Paterno needs to get out of football, your argument was that he still brings in recruits, SO WHAT? When was the last Big 10 Championship with all those blue chippers? So yeah, it would be nice to say my little boy played for Joe Pa, but hey, times are a changing my man, its nice that PSU had four first rounders last year, but I think the majority of Happy Valley would be "happier" with a run at the roses
SARGE
Yes, Haynes will suck, thank you (Point)
Should we excuse all DT's entering the NFL and have low expectationns of production even when they are a first rounder, I think not, yes the DT position is basically to get blocked to create havoc for the LB'ers to run around. BUT if you are a first rounder on defense I believe (and tell if I am wrong) a player should garner more than a single tackle. I mean all he had to do was put one of those bear claws of an arm out on a RB and he may have a had a deuce (speaking of deuce, give me another)
I am sure that Johnson will be catching a lot balls this year, but wait, didnt the Cards draft another WR this year? Yeah, and Denny Green is going to be callin his number plenty. It was nice in Phoenix while it lasted for that Nittany Lion. Sorry buddy (one more)
Jamal Lewis did play over Priest Holmes as rookie in Baltimore (point), Jamal Lewis' 2,000 yard campaign and Johnson's are completely uncomparable, regardless of the fact that they were at different levels of competition.
But finally, the original question Adam, is that Joe Paterno needs to get out of football, your argument was that he still brings in recruits, SO WHAT? When was the last Big 10 Championship with all those blue chippers? So yeah, it would be nice to say my little boy played for Joe Pa, but hey, times are a changing my man, its nice that PSU had four first rounders last year, but I think the majority of Happy Valley would be "happier" with a run at the roses
SARGE
You misread my quote Woody.
Who is gonna play over Holmes NOW in KC? Certaintly not a rookie. Im not ready to count Jo Pa out yet. Hes only had 2 or 3 loosing seasons in his long career. They will be in the race again.
Perhaps, but should they be in it again, it will have nothing to do with Ol Joe. It is definitely time for him to step aside.
PennState had a great recruiting class this year. They will step it up and be a top 10 team again in the upcoming years with Morelli at Qb and Austin Scott running the ball
My mother talks about how Joe Paterno was on the cover of the Sporting News in 1975 as Coach of the Year.
Getting the recruits, come on Adam, you can get top classes all you want, but if you dont develop and win it, what is the point of that recruiting class. Aside from Courtney Brown (AKA Bust Baby) and LaVar Arrington in recent years, Penn State has not been in top shape since the 1994 undefeated season. Kerry Collins and Joe Jurevicous have prolly been the best he has produced in recent years. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of another player (other than Arrington) that hasnt been a bust in the past 5-10 years from PSU (possibly Jeff Hartings but he struggled with the Lions). Curtis Enis-bust, Ki-Jana Carter- the gods were not smiling on this shining pro, Courtney Brown- see above.
10 years of loneliness in Happy Valley. I know that Joe Paterno is to Penn State as Tradition is to the Rose Bowl, but even the tournament of roses fell to AT&T. Look at Nebraska, they have finally caved to a modern offense, as well as Notre Dame. Both ND and the Huskers have made steps to return to greatness, as the Nittany Lions are just plain stuck.
Getting the recruits, come on Adam, you can get top classes all you want, but if you dont develop and win it, what is the point of that recruiting class. Aside from Courtney Brown (AKA Bust Baby) and LaVar Arrington in recent years, Penn State has not been in top shape since the 1994 undefeated season. Kerry Collins and Joe Jurevicous have prolly been the best he has produced in recent years. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of another player (other than Arrington) that hasnt been a bust in the past 5-10 years from PSU (possibly Jeff Hartings but he struggled with the Lions). Curtis Enis-bust, Ki-Jana Carter- the gods were not smiling on this shining pro, Courtney Brown- see above.
10 years of loneliness in Happy Valley. I know that Joe Paterno is to Penn State as Tradition is to the Rose Bowl, but even the tournament of roses fell to AT&T. Look at Nebraska, they have finally caved to a modern offense, as well as Notre Dame. Both ND and the Huskers have made steps to return to greatness, as the Nittany Lions are just plain stuck.
I am saddened by the recent demise of these two once-top-tier programs. Does anybody want to comment on what happened to bring them both down from perennial TOP 10 status to NCAA IA also-rans??
Also, do you see the future brightening at all for either of these teams? TIA.
Also, do you see the future brightening at all for either of these teams? TIA.
QUOTE(mepatriot @ May 22 2004, 08:59 AM)
I am saddened by the recent demise of these two once-top-tier programs. Does anybody want to comment on what happened to bring them both down from perennial TOP 10 status to NCAA IA also-rans??
Also, do you see the future brightening at all for either of these teams? TIA.
Also, do you see the future brightening at all for either of these teams? TIA.
They arent getting recruits! All Midwest recruits want OSU or UM. They used to want PSU and ND. Also, Penn State has not been the same since Jerry Sandusky left as the D Coordinator.
I have never been a fan of Notre Dame and kind of like seeing them struggle but PSU needs to get rid of the legend now. He is 70+ years old, from friends I have spoken to that played for him he does not coach he is only there to be a figure head.
Penn State is my 2nd love behind MSU so I hate to see the Lions struggling. JoPa has lost it, but he can still bring in the recruits.
QUOTE(sgtslaughter @ May 25 2004, 02:49 PM)
My mother talks about how Joe Paterno was on the cover of the Sporting News in 1975 as Coach of the Year.
Getting the recruits, come on Adam, you can get top classes all you want, but if you dont develop and win it, what is the point of that recruiting class. Aside from Courtney Brown (AKA Bust Baby) and LaVar Arrington in recent years, Penn State has not been in top shape since the 1994 undefeated season. Kerry Collins and Joe Jurevicous have prolly been the best he has produced in recent years. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of another player (other than Arrington) that hasnt been a bust in the past 5-10 years from PSU (possibly Jeff Hartings but he struggled with the Lions). Curtis Enis-bust, Ki-Jana Carter- the gods were not smiling on this shining pro, Courtney Brown- see above.
10 years of loneliness in Happy Valley. I know that Joe Paterno is to Penn State as Tradition is to the Rose Bowl, but even the tournament of roses fell to AT&T. Look at Nebraska, they have finally caved to a modern offense, as well as Notre Dame. Both ND and the Huskers have made steps to return to greatness, as the Nittany Lions are just plain stuck.
Getting the recruits, come on Adam, you can get top classes all you want, but if you dont develop and win it, what is the point of that recruiting class. Aside from Courtney Brown (AKA Bust Baby) and LaVar Arrington in recent years, Penn State has not been in top shape since the 1994 undefeated season. Kerry Collins and Joe Jurevicous have prolly been the best he has produced in recent years. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of another player (other than Arrington) that hasnt been a bust in the past 5-10 years from PSU (possibly Jeff Hartings but he struggled with the Lions). Curtis Enis-bust, Ki-Jana Carter- the gods were not smiling on this shining pro, Courtney Brown- see above.
10 years of loneliness in Happy Valley. I know that Joe Paterno is to Penn State as Tradition is to the Rose Bowl, but even the tournament of roses fell to AT&T. Look at Nebraska, they have finally caved to a modern offense, as well as Notre Dame. Both ND and the Huskers have made steps to return to greatness, as the Nittany Lions are just plain stuck.
Hey Pat, did you watch last years draft? 4 PSU guys went in the first round!
Jimmy Kennedy
Larry Johnson
Bryant Johnson
Michael Haynes
Penn St. is getting players. Like I said, Sandusky is the key here.
Other notables
Brandon Short is a top tackler for the Giants
David Macklin is a decent DB in Indy
Kerry Collins has thrown for more yards than anyone in the NFC in the last 5 yrs.
PSU had a very down year and everyone is ready to ignore a top team.
OK, Adam, what did those freaking 1st rounders do in college. JACK! Great that they have pro potential, GREAT, that they have the excellent ability to play at the next level and even be drafted in the 1st Round.
My own analysis of the PSU 2003 class:
Larry Johnson: Overrated, ran for 400 yds on a poor (and I am a homer) Michigan State defense. Will not play a single down for the Chiefs until Holmes hangs 'em up. He even bashed your sacred cow,Joe Pa, for not hyping his Heisman campaign.
Jimmy Kennedy: Netted a single tackle for the Rams. Considered a top 10 pick, slipped to St. Louis.
Bryant Johnson: Considered a "reach" in the first round. Had 35 catches 400+ yds and a touch in his rookie campaign, not bad, but oh yeah, he plays for Arizona.
Michael Haynes: Also considered a "reach" for Chicago, not very impressive collegiate career, but Im not one to knock, neither did I, BUT I had more tackles on Special Teams in Ohio than Haynes did in Chicago (21 in 16 games)
Give me the point stat boy!
SARGE
My own analysis of the PSU 2003 class:
Larry Johnson: Overrated, ran for 400 yds on a poor (and I am a homer) Michigan State defense. Will not play a single down for the Chiefs until Holmes hangs 'em up. He even bashed your sacred cow,Joe Pa, for not hyping his Heisman campaign.
Jimmy Kennedy: Netted a single tackle for the Rams. Considered a top 10 pick, slipped to St. Louis.
Bryant Johnson: Considered a "reach" in the first round. Had 35 catches 400+ yds and a touch in his rookie campaign, not bad, but oh yeah, he plays for Arizona.
Michael Haynes: Also considered a "reach" for Chicago, not very impressive collegiate career, but Im not one to knock, neither did I, BUT I had more tackles on Special Teams in Ohio than Haynes did in Chicago (21 in 16 games)
Give me the point stat boy!
SARGE
This is so gonna be Woody Paige vs. Michael Holley, me being Holley of course. A few thoughts.
When do any DT do well their first year?
Johnson had a fine campaign with the Cards
Haynes was never good, but somehow was a 1st rounder
Larry Johnson-First guy in Big 10 to rush for 2000. I dont care for how much against who! ARe you gonna discredit Jamal Lewis because he ran for 500 on the Browns? Prolly not. And name any rookie who would play over Priest Holmes?
Only Haynes of this group will suck, and we will see when Harris and Johnson take the pressure off the end spot.
Thank you for pulling a Mariotti and proving my point and discrediting your own.
Yes, Haynes will suck, thank you (Point)
Should we excuse all DT's entering the NFL and have low expectationns of production even when they are a first rounder, I think not, yes the DT position is basically to get blocked to create havoc for the LB'ers to run around. BUT if you are a first rounder on defense I believe (and tell if I am wrong) a player should garner more than a single tackle. I mean all he had to do was put one of those bear claws of an arm out on a RB and he may have a had a deuce (speaking of deuce, give me another)
I am sure that Johnson will be catching a lot balls this year, but wait, didnt the Cards draft another WR this year? Yeah, and Denny Green is going to be callin his number plenty. It was nice in Phoenix while it lasted for that Nittany Lion. Sorry buddy (one more)
Jamal Lewis did play over Priest Holmes as rookie in Baltimore (point), Jamal Lewis' 2,000 yard campaign and Johnson's are completely uncomparable, regardless of the fact that they were at different levels of competition.
But finally, the original question Adam, is that Joe Paterno needs to get out of football, your argument was that he still brings in recruits, SO WHAT? When was the last Big 10 Championship with all those blue chippers? So yeah, it would be nice to say my little boy played for Joe Pa, but hey, times are a changing my man, its nice that PSU had four first rounders last year, but I think the majority of Happy Valley would be "happier" with a run at the roses
SARGE
Yes, Haynes will suck, thank you (Point)
Should we excuse all DT's entering the NFL and have low expectationns of production even when they are a first rounder, I think not, yes the DT position is basically to get blocked to create havoc for the LB'ers to run around. BUT if you are a first rounder on defense I believe (and tell if I am wrong) a player should garner more than a single tackle. I mean all he had to do was put one of those bear claws of an arm out on a RB and he may have a had a deuce (speaking of deuce, give me another)
I am sure that Johnson will be catching a lot balls this year, but wait, didnt the Cards draft another WR this year? Yeah, and Denny Green is going to be callin his number plenty. It was nice in Phoenix while it lasted for that Nittany Lion. Sorry buddy (one more)
Jamal Lewis did play over Priest Holmes as rookie in Baltimore (point), Jamal Lewis' 2,000 yard campaign and Johnson's are completely uncomparable, regardless of the fact that they were at different levels of competition.
But finally, the original question Adam, is that Joe Paterno needs to get out of football, your argument was that he still brings in recruits, SO WHAT? When was the last Big 10 Championship with all those blue chippers? So yeah, it would be nice to say my little boy played for Joe Pa, but hey, times are a changing my man, its nice that PSU had four first rounders last year, but I think the majority of Happy Valley would be "happier" with a run at the roses
SARGE
QUOTE(sgtslaughter @ May 26 2004, 10:28 PM)
Thank you for pulling a Mariotti and proving my point and discrediting your own.
Yes, Haynes will suck, thank you (Point)
Should we excuse all DT's entering the NFL and have low expectationns of production even when they are a first rounder, I think not, yes the DT position is basically to get blocked to create havoc for the LB'ers to run around. BUT if you are a first rounder on defense I believe (and tell if I am wrong) a player should garner more than a single tackle. I mean all he had to do was put one of those bear claws of an arm out on a RB and he may have a had a deuce (speaking of deuce, give me another)
I am sure that Johnson will be catching a lot balls this year, but wait, didnt the Cards draft another WR this year? Yeah, and Denny Green is going to be callin his number plenty. It was nice in Phoenix while it lasted for that Nittany Lion. Sorry buddy (one more)
Jamal Lewis did play over Priest Holmes as rookie in Baltimore (point), Jamal Lewis' 2,000 yard campaign and Johnson's are completely uncomparable, regardless of the fact that they were at different levels of competition.
But finally, the original question Adam, is that Joe Paterno needs to get out of football, your argument was that he still brings in recruits, SO WHAT? When was the last Big 10 Championship with all those blue chippers? So yeah, it would be nice to say my little boy played for Joe Pa, but hey, times are a changing my man, its nice that PSU had four first rounders last year, but I think the majority of Happy Valley would be "happier" with a run at the roses
SARGE
Yes, Haynes will suck, thank you (Point)
Should we excuse all DT's entering the NFL and have low expectationns of production even when they are a first rounder, I think not, yes the DT position is basically to get blocked to create havoc for the LB'ers to run around. BUT if you are a first rounder on defense I believe (and tell if I am wrong) a player should garner more than a single tackle. I mean all he had to do was put one of those bear claws of an arm out on a RB and he may have a had a deuce (speaking of deuce, give me another)
I am sure that Johnson will be catching a lot balls this year, but wait, didnt the Cards draft another WR this year? Yeah, and Denny Green is going to be callin his number plenty. It was nice in Phoenix while it lasted for that Nittany Lion. Sorry buddy (one more)
Jamal Lewis did play over Priest Holmes as rookie in Baltimore (point), Jamal Lewis' 2,000 yard campaign and Johnson's are completely uncomparable, regardless of the fact that they were at different levels of competition.
But finally, the original question Adam, is that Joe Paterno needs to get out of football, your argument was that he still brings in recruits, SO WHAT? When was the last Big 10 Championship with all those blue chippers? So yeah, it would be nice to say my little boy played for Joe Pa, but hey, times are a changing my man, its nice that PSU had four first rounders last year, but I think the majority of Happy Valley would be "happier" with a run at the roses
SARGE
You misread my quote Woody.
Who is gonna play over Holmes NOW in KC? Certaintly not a rookie. Im not ready to count Jo Pa out yet. Hes only had 2 or 3 loosing seasons in his long career. They will be in the race again.
Perhaps, but should they be in it again, it will have nothing to do with Ol Joe. It is definitely time for him to step aside.
PennState had a great recruiting class this year. They will step it up and be a top 10 team again in the upcoming years with Morelli at Qb and Austin Scott running the ball
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